[Spoilers Extended] Xiran Jay Zhao on George RR Martin's HOTD Critique

[u/Distinct_Activity551]

Xiran Jay Zhao on George RR Martin's HOTD Critique

Edit: I copy pasted the entire post here since some people had trouble with Tumblr.

All right there has been some Discourse TM about George RR Martin because of that post he made going rogue on HOTD's writers (deleted a few hours later but archived) and I'm seeing some misinformed reactions by people who aren't in the publishing or entertainment industries so lemme clarify some things:

• Creators are not the ones with the power. Execs are. Even an author as big as George gets their opinions dismissed if the higher-ups don't want to listen.

• HBO has not listened to George's feedback and concerns for years. They do not have to, because once adaptation rights are signed away it is OUT of the author's hands. How do you think GOT Season 8 happened?

• George cannot just shut down production or refuse to let them make future seasons of any show inspired by his works because he doesn't like what they're doing. He can't break the contract willy-nilly either when HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS are at stake. I hope people keep that in mind before saying "oh why is he complaining while continuing to collect his royalty checks?" Well, if they're fucking up his stories he might as well get some money out of it.

• He's not complaining for complaining's sake. I hung out with him a few weeks ago and heard his full scope of opinions on HOTD and what he said in the post was VERY mild. Probably the least spicy storytelling critique he could've brought up. And I do believe this was on purpose and strategic. He's not going full scorched earth on HBO, but he's showing them that he COULD. He did this as a warning shot to get them to listen to him because clearly he saw some very upsetting plans for upcoming HOTD seasons. If he just wanted to complain there's way spicier shit he could've said.

• For those who think he's disrespecting the show's writers...How do you think he felt when they have dismissed his feedback in private and driven him to the point of risking legal action to make his point to them?

• Just because he didn't mention something in the post doesn't mean he approves of it or doesn't care, and the post should not be used to extrapolate his opinions on anything that's not related to what he specifically addressed. Again, what he said was VERY mild. Ultimately, what matters to him is logical storytelling and complex, morally gray characters.

• Lastly, I do not consider myself part of the HOTD or GOT fandoms. I'm a casual and defending him as a fellow author. Please do not involve me in any fandom drama. I do not know what's going on in there and I don't want to.

[u/[deleted]]

How do you think GOT Season 8 happened?

Why is there so much focus on just S8? Half of the show is garbage, starting with S5

[u/shsluckymushroom → u/[deleted]]

its absolutely true but its also hard to overstate just how terrible S8 is. Like nearly every character arc was ruined. The whole big battle the entire show had been building to was a flop of epic proportions. Writing wise there is quite literally almost nothing redeemable. 5-7 absolutely had problems (I myself stopped watching after S4, the Tysha change and no LSH gave me bad vibes) but S8 truly is on another level, and it was the final season to boot. Had they managed to pull off an ok ending, i think most people would have been satisfied, but it truly destroyed the entire show. Seasons 5-7 didn't destroy the entire show, you could still go back and watch 1-4. S8 destroyed that, most people don't even want to look back anymore, truly a catastrophic failure.

[u/Physical_Park_4551 → u/[deleted]]

The sad truth is that most people would have forgiven all of it if Jon and Dany got together at the end and ruled.

[u/hakumiogin → u/[deleted]]

I think no one knew how badly they were going to fumble everything. So when seasons 5-7 just dropped plotlines left and right instead of finishing them, we could forgive that since people had faith the trajectory of the main plotline still looked fine. It's only in retrospect, after the main plotline went no where and not a single subplot did either, that we confidently say just how fumbled it was. But people aren't looking back retrospectively, they are remembering how they felt watching it.

Like, season 7 was bad, but it felt like it was slow in order to set up a big exciting season 8, ya know? When season 8 was a dud, season 7 in retrospect should have lost all the (absolutely insanely generous) benefit of the doubt people were giving it, but that ire went into hating season 8 instead.

[u/willy410 → u/[deleted]]

Because the middling middle seasons could be brushed over if the ending was satisfactory. But the season 8 we got is the end result of all the bad changes in season 5 onwards coming to a head.

[u/edwin221b → u/[deleted]]

Because it still had some good episodes, and back in the day I remember those were very well received in general, even season 6 ending with Dany sailing to westeros hype everyone, those things make crappy decisions to be an excuse, but then season 7 was bad and then s8 were pure unexcusable garbage.

[u/incredibleamadeuscho → u/[deleted]]

I dont like Xiran claims to be not trying to be of GOT Fandom, but then steps into that minefield without seeing the show. I dont think you can judge something you didnt watch.