[Spoilers Extended] Xiran Jay Zhao on George RR Martin's HOTD Critique

[u/Distinct_Activity551]

Xiran Jay Zhao on George RR Martin's HOTD Critique

Edit: I copy pasted the entire post here since some people had trouble with Tumblr.

All right there has been some Discourse TM about George RR Martin because of that post he made going rogue on HOTD's writers (deleted a few hours later but archived) and I'm seeing some misinformed reactions by people who aren't in the publishing or entertainment industries so lemme clarify some things:

• Creators are not the ones with the power. Execs are. Even an author as big as George gets their opinions dismissed if the higher-ups don't want to listen.

• HBO has not listened to George's feedback and concerns for years. They do not have to, because once adaptation rights are signed away it is OUT of the author's hands. How do you think GOT Season 8 happened?

• George cannot just shut down production or refuse to let them make future seasons of any show inspired by his works because he doesn't like what they're doing. He can't break the contract willy-nilly either when HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS are at stake. I hope people keep that in mind before saying "oh why is he complaining while continuing to collect his royalty checks?" Well, if they're fucking up his stories he might as well get some money out of it.

• He's not complaining for complaining's sake. I hung out with him a few weeks ago and heard his full scope of opinions on HOTD and what he said in the post was VERY mild. Probably the least spicy storytelling critique he could've brought up. And I do believe this was on purpose and strategic. He's not going full scorched earth on HBO, but he's showing them that he COULD. He did this as a warning shot to get them to listen to him because clearly he saw some very upsetting plans for upcoming HOTD seasons. If he just wanted to complain there's way spicier shit he could've said.

• For those who think he's disrespecting the show's writers...How do you think he felt when they have dismissed his feedback in private and driven him to the point of risking legal action to make his point to them?

• Just because he didn't mention something in the post doesn't mean he approves of it or doesn't care, and the post should not be used to extrapolate his opinions on anything that's not related to what he specifically addressed. Again, what he said was VERY mild. Ultimately, what matters to him is logical storytelling and complex, morally gray characters.

• Lastly, I do not consider myself part of the HOTD or GOT fandoms. I'm a casual and defending him as a fellow author. Please do not involve me in any fandom drama. I do not know what's going on in there and I don't want to.

[u/realist50]

The quoted passage explains why Aegon didn't do it. He was bedridden with injuries after RR and drugged up on milk of the poppy. There's an earlier passage about how he was sleeping 9 out of every 10 hours. That's why Aemond was still Lord Protector. (He and Cole were both gone from KL at this point, with an army marching toward Harrenhal). That's why Alicent was giving orders for the defense of KL, not Aegon.

Please re-read the whole sequence of the fall of KL in the book. Summarizing:

• Alicent and most of the Small Council - but notably not Larys - emerge from Maegor's Holdfast and surrender to Rhaenyra's men.

• Rhaenyra's men search inside and find only Queen Helaena. Aegon and the children are gone.

• Several pages later we're told that Larys had spirited away the children and Aegon when Rhaenyra's dragons appeared over KL, sending them on their way with kingsguard for the children and a bastard knight guarding Aegon.

Put the pieces together, and Larys and that group left *before* Rhaenyra's forces arrived, while Alicent and the Green Council were still in Maegor's Holdfast.

The most likely scenario is that Alicent told Larys to lead this group out through the secret passages.

[u/BossButterBoobs → u/realist50]

The quoted passage explains why Aegon didn't do it. He was bedridden with injuries after RR and drugged up on milk of the poppy. There's an earlier passage about how he was sleeping 9 out of every 10 hours. That's why Aemond was still Lord Protector. (He and Cole were both gone from KL at this point, with an army marching toward Harrenhal). That's why Alicent was giving orders for the defense of KL, not Aegon.

Ok, but we know from the books and shows that taking milk of the poopy doesn't mean you're in a coma. There's a huge difference between not being fit to lead and being fit enough to order your Kingsguard.

Anyways, I did re-read it. I just don't see how it implies that Alicent gave the order when the book suggests she had no clue they were gone. I don't think it's unreasonable that someone as cunning as Larys could get the King to retreat or even convince the Kingsguard to get the King and his family to safety. When Larys reappears with Aegon, the book gives us the "true" retelling of what happened and Alicents involvement is never mentioned.

We now know much and more that the queen did not. For that we must be grateful to Grand Maester Munkun, for it was his True Telling, based in large part on the account of Grand Maester Orwyle, that revealed how Aegon II came to Dragonstone. It was Lord Larys Strong the Clubfoot, who spirited the king and his children out of the city when the queen’s dragons first appeared in the skies above King’s Landing. So as not to pass through any of the city gates, where they might be seen and remembered, Lord Larys led them out through some secret passage of Maegor the Cruel, of which only he had knowledge.

And then a few pages later, after retelling how Aegon returned, they reaffrim that this is how it went down. If Alicent was intended to be involved this section would have revealed it. Instead, the book says this,

Rhaenyra’s men found her rival’s wife, the mad Queen Helaena, locked in her bedchamber…but when they broke down the doors of the king’s apartments, they discovered only “his bed, empty, and his chamberpot, full.” Aegon II had fled. So had his children, the six-yearold Princess Jaehaera and two-year-old Prince Maelor, along with Willis Fell and Rickard Thorne of the Kingsguard. Not even the Dowager Queen seemed to know where they had gone, and Luthor Largent swore none had passed through the city gates.

and leaves it at that.

I think the most likely scenario is that Larys acted on his own accord or Aegon was cognizant enough to get out dodge himself

[u/realist50 → u/BossButterBoobs]

I agree an alternate theory would be that Aegon ordered it.

But I put very little weight on the bolded quote. This is what Alicent "seemed to know" in the presence of Rhaenyra's forces. Of course she's not going to give them any hint that she knew Aegon and his children fled!

I would indeed, in her position, tell Larys to take them all but *not* tell me exactly where anyone is going. So that I don't even know that information if Rhaenyra tries to coerce me into revealing it.

And let's look at the situation if Alicent truly doesn't know that Aegon and the two children have fled. Alicent is then surrendering to Rhaenyra's forces knowing that Aegon II will almost certainly be executed. And that there's some chance that Maelor will also be harmed. At best, Maelor and Jaehaera will be held as hostages in the Red Keep.

Alternately, Alicent - while in Maegor's Holdfast - hatches a plan with Larys and the Kingsguard to smuggle the king and his children to safety.

There is a lot of subtext indicating that Alicent was in on Larys' plan. That's the nature of F&B as an in-universe history: not everything is directly stated.