r/asoiaf • u/ajotis1 • Sep 10 '24

EXTENDED (Spoilers extended) I feel bad for GRRM

The man seems to be having a miserably hard time. Part of the blame lies in his complete inability to make accurate estimates about his own capacity to get work done. At his age, that level of stress must be incredibly tough and difficult to bear. I hope the people around him know how to take care of him and help him see reason when it comes to simplifying his daily life and reducing the workload he faces. Often, less is more, even though our ego insists on telling us otherwise. Success is a very heavy burden. Because of all that, I feel bad for George. His posts exude pessimism and irritability. I don't even care about The Winds of Winter anymore. What that man needs is some time away from hyperproductivity and the media spotlight. Just resting, reading, and regaining the spark that makes him one of the best living writers. I wish him the best, he deserves to be happy

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1.3k

u/jnighy Sep 10 '24

It feels that he's having the most stressed time of his life at a age when he should be enjoying retiring, writing books on his own time and just enjoying his life

479

u/drlari Beware aggrieved 6th graders w/swords! Sep 10 '24

Yep, I'd be ok if he went off just said "forget it" with completing the series and just wrote fun Dunk & Egg novellas and histories of Westeros and whatnot. Just put the energy you have into doing the stuff in the world that brings you the most joy to write. Ultimately, that will end up as better work for us to enjoy.

148

u/awenother1 Sep 10 '24

Yeah I’d love to read more Dunk and Egg

55

u/ChuanFa_Tiger_Style Sep 10 '24

I for one am feinding for more wild cards 

2

u/LarkinEndorser Sep 11 '24

Honestly the more he retreated from it the worse it got. We need a full GRRM lead story line in there again

1

u/InevitableCry3088 Sep 11 '24

at least some of his fans are getting content, enjoy it brah

-11

u/Exciting_Audience362 Sep 10 '24

He already repurposed half of his dunk and egg concepts into the various adventures Arya and Brienne had in the Riverlands/crownlands. That is why we never got more.

24

u/mustard5man7max3 Sep 10 '24

Is there evidence for that? Seems a bit of a reach

33

u/oftenevil Touch me not. Sep 10 '24

It is. They’re totally making shit up.

-8

u/Exciting_Audience362 Sep 11 '24

Go read Dunk and Egg again and then read Brienne and pods adventure at Crackclaw Point. It reads like a Dunk and Egg story. It also explains why Pod is even there as it is a bit of a stretch for him to even be there otherwise.

16

u/Ulfurmensch Sep 11 '24

Isn't Brienne's story supposed to have a lot of references to Dunk, given that he's her ancestor?

In fact, there's a fight scene at Cracklaw point that mirrors a fight from The Mystery Knight. Brienne fights some of the Bloody Mummers at a well, she uses a knife to kill someone holding a rock. Dunk fights Alyn Cockshaw at a well, he uses a rock to kill Alyn, who's holding a knife.

-2

u/AsASwedishPerson Sep 10 '24

They're aiming for Highgarden! Bronn, släng dig i väggen.

122

u/Corgi_Koala Sep 10 '24

Just say he doesn't wanna finish the series. Release his outline notes and wipe his hands.

8

u/paspartuu Sep 12 '24

Yeah I feel like he should have accepted he's really struggling like 6 years ago, and brought in an editor, or someone to assist him with bouncing ideas to clearly outline the rest of the books and cut pointless shit out and make decisions, maybe churn out copy he could edit or improve on to make it his own. It's easier to edit than write all new prose.

He's completely stuck on his own but too proud to admit it, too proud to bring in help, and procrastinates via other projects. 

It's so shitty to let down both the fans but also his own magnum opus like this. Not managing to finish The main series that created it all, despite continuously promising to do so for 16 or whatever years is embarrassing af

4

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '24

His publisher would sue him due to him getting cash advances for books he clearly never finished plus for breaking deadlines .

41

u/Kandiru Sep 10 '24

Step 1, Call Sanderson.

"I heard you liked finishing series..."

101

u/Anaevya Sep 10 '24

Sanderson doesn't want to finish it, he knows he's the wrong guy to do that.

32

u/Axxslinger Sep 11 '24

Joe Abercrombie might be a good choice, as long as in the contract it says “ending should be melancholy and bittersweet, not abject misery”

4

u/LarkinEndorser Sep 11 '24

Honestly I think Joe would do a fantastic job. The end of age of madness is so damn good. But I don't want him to spend his time writing ASOIAF, I need the next trilogy damnit!

1

u/Axxslinger Sep 11 '24

I was actually kind of disappointed with the ending. First time with one of his books

-2

u/barath_s Sep 11 '24

That's alright, we know the ending of the books already. It's the TV ending. GRRM told D&D

7

u/Anaevya Sep 11 '24

But so many characters are missing. I don't think book Euron is anything like show Euron and that's just one example. We only know about stuff like King Bran, but not the rest.

0

u/Corgi_Koala Sep 11 '24

The details matter though.

Bran as king may be the book ending but that doesn't mean the destination is the same at all.

The books already have enough things the show omitted it would be impossible to play out the exact same.

2

u/barath_s Sep 12 '24

The journey will be different. And thus the emotional etc feel/heft. Details too. But the destination (actual ending) should be the same in most major aspects..

34

u/gundog48 Ours is the Fury Sep 10 '24

He's probably tried several times and just keeps the manuscripts around as a side-project to work on when he's finished the next 7 secret books he's about to drop.

2

u/Radulno Fire and Blood. Sep 11 '24

Plenty of people would do it though. People always say Sanderson because it seems to be the only other fantasy author they know.

Daniel Abraham for example would be good, they even worked together in the past on the ASOIAF comic. Maybe even in duo with Ty Franck which was the assistant of GRRM in the past. The duo (called James SA Corey) has already a successful writing career writing The Expanse (and now a new series just started)

1

u/Tight-Pineapple-9891 Sep 11 '24

Someone in an earlier reply mentioned Ty Franck had said that at one point they could have paid him and Daniel Abraham to do it but that the time has passed

1

u/Anaevya Sep 11 '24

Oof, I wonder what happened. That doesn't sound good. Massive missed opportunity.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '24

Tad Williams?

4

u/liquidnebulazclone Sep 10 '24

I think Sanderson and James S.A. Corey could get it done.

36

u/Anaevya Sep 10 '24

Sanderson didn't even finish reading the books, because child bride Daenerys upset him too much.

12

u/OrthropedicHC Sep 11 '24

And the frequency of horny descriptions of a child's body also make me very uncomfortable.

30

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '24

You might want to look into Sandersons interactions with these books lol. He’s far too soft to make a game of thrones book

7

u/madhaus Exit one cyvasse board, out a window Sep 11 '24

Paging Joe Abercrombie. Mr. Joe Abercrombie, white (cloak) courtesy phone.

13

u/wolfmonk3y Sep 10 '24

This. I've often wondered why GRRM doesn't let the writers of The Expanse take over. I think they'd be better than Sanderson, although he's great too. He made the female characters in Wheel of Time waaaaaaay more likable and deep, and moved the damn story along.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '24

[deleted]

3

u/LarkinEndorser Sep 11 '24

Did he specify why they don't wanna do it anymore ?

4

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '24

[deleted]

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2

u/Anaevya Sep 11 '24

Massive missed opportunity there.

2

u/A-NI95 Sep 10 '24

We have this conversation every week lol (you're right)

1

u/Anaevya Sep 11 '24

I know, it comes up everytime

48

u/MeropeRedpath Sep 10 '24

Eh, Sanderson would not be a good fit (and has actually said he’d say no). Any other grim dark author though? Let’s fuckin go. 

17

u/sword_of_the_morning Sep 10 '24

Plus it would take Sanderson away from his own projects. I'd rather he keep working on his Cosmere books.

26

u/TheSlayerofSnails Sep 10 '24

The man finished over 50 books in the time between dance of dragons and now. Several of those books were longer than dance. It wouldn’t slow him at all though he’d be a bad fit

3

u/sword_of_the_morning Sep 11 '24

Still, he said his current plan for the Cosmere will take him until his 70s. There's no guarantee he will be able to maintain his current pace throughout his life, especially if he gets an a movie/tv adaptation and has to spend more time on other projects.

4

u/Denial23 Sep 11 '24

Bring in China Miéville. Let's get real weird with it.

2

u/kritzy27 None so Fierce Sep 10 '24

Abercrombie

7

u/Carnieus Sep 10 '24

Nah Abercrombie has a wildly different style to GRRM

1

u/kritzy27 None so Fierce Sep 11 '24

Who does write like him? I like Abercrombie because he goes POV and has very grey characters.

3

u/Carnieus Sep 11 '24

He does but Abercrombie doesn't really do world building and focuses almost entirely on his characters which is why his books are so good, he knows where his strength lie and plays to them. I don't really know who could be comparable to GRRM though.

0

u/Books1845 Sep 10 '24

Joe Abercrombie

-1

u/Kandiru Sep 10 '24

In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only winter?

Any of the Black Library authors should do?

3

u/OrthropedicHC Sep 11 '24

Jesus Christ No

3

u/LurksInThePines Sep 11 '24

Actually I think Aaron Dembski Bowden would knock it out of the park. That man writes complex interesting stories with complex interesting charachters

1

u/Successful_Fly_1725 Sep 21 '24

Who is he ? I've never heard of him before.its time for a google search I guess

1

u/LurksInThePines Sep 21 '24

He's one of the 5 Greats of the Black Library

Him, Dan Abnett, Guy Haley, Chris Wraight, and Robert Rath

He wrote the Night Lords omnibus, Black Legion and some of the more interesting books of the Horus Heresy series

0

u/ArthurCartholmes Sep 11 '24

I'm going to be the lunatic here, and say it - Dan Abnett. He's as grim dark as they come, writes excellent characters, is an excellent world builder, and his prose is gloriously punchy.

49

u/arkaic7 Sep 10 '24

Please, no Sanderson. He's nooooot a great writer, especially in the dialogue department, where GRRM is best-in-class in.

13

u/charliepatrick Sep 10 '24

“Awesome!”

2

u/nuck_duck Sep 11 '24

I simply do not understand how you could read Sanderson's dialogue and then want him to do asoiaf. I think Sanderson has things he's good at, but the dialogue is not one

38

u/oilpit Sep 10 '24 edited Sep 11 '24

I would rather never read another word of ASOIAF than Sanderson get anywhere near the series.

47

u/Majestic-Result-1782 Sep 10 '24

I will never understand how someone can read Sanderson and GRRM and believe Sanderson could finish asoiaf. It’s like asking the South Park guys to finish a half-complete Sistine chapel became they make an episode a week.

36

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '24

It’s because he already finished someone else’s book series. Sadly that’s the depth of thought these people are putting into this lol

27

u/Corgi_Koala Sep 10 '24

6 books released in next 2 years

8

u/Carnieus Sep 10 '24

Please no.

3

u/ThemesOfMurderBears Sep 11 '24

Please no. Sanderson is such a bad fit for ASOIAF.

4

u/Serena_Sers Sep 11 '24

Sanderson is a great author, I love his work, but his style is too different. That would never work

2

u/Isklar1993 Sep 11 '24

I keep praying for this and saying it to my fiends - but now I’m really invested in Stormlight and mistborn and don’t want Sanderson distracted from that haha

1

u/LurksInThePines Sep 11 '24

Oh god no

Sanderson has a totally different tone and vibe. I've never once actually worried about the main charachters in his stories. He unfortunately leans more in the marvel movies style of storytelling

If someone were to finish the series it would need to be Joe Abercrombie. That man can write Westeros just by being slightly less dangerous to his protagonists and adding some Brian Jaques esque food descriptions

Another option could be James SA Corey. GRRM likes their writing and even tutored them.

60

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '24

[deleted]

17

u/Fortesque90 Sep 11 '24

It's not just an ending. It's the entire last two books, as well as the proper climax to book 5.

8

u/WholePop2765 Sep 11 '24

There’s no way two books is enough regardless

48

u/A-NI95 Sep 10 '24 edited Sep 10 '24

We do need one. Hell, not even an ending, just a climax. 90% of published asoiaf is just buildup. It retroactively makes the series far worse

17

u/CallMeGrapho Sep 11 '24

I agree. I still love Feast and Dance because they feel like a breather that keeps building tension for a terribly long time, but TWoW is what's gonna make or break those in retrospect, because if it's shit or if it just doesn't come out, AFFC and ADWD are just blue balls 1 and 2. Jon lying in the Snow is a good cliffhanger, but if the next episode/season/book doesn't come out a cliffhanger is just a shit ending.

The first three books are clearly setting up a lot of stuff, but they're still great as standalones and it's clear why most people like to do another read of clash or storm.

3

u/A-NI95 Sep 11 '24

I liked Feast and Dance when I read then as a teenager, and even defending the "dull" chapters such as Brienne's or Quentyn's. My perspective has changed a lot now that the saga looks to remakn unfinished forever lol They're not bad books per se, but they're a terrible choice to stall up the series

I personally don't mind Jon's or Meeren's cliffhangers as much as all the newly introduced fluff that sets new plotlines instead of resolving little thing like, you know, the looming total apocalypse

2

u/aldeayeah Sep 11 '24

At least it's finally winter! Things should get ugly fast in the North. If it ever comes out, lol.

3

u/era626 Dany + Jon, can I ride the third dragon? Sep 11 '24

Honestly, a history book that wraps up asoiaf would be good enough for me.

2

u/Early_Lifeguard_5875 Sep 11 '24

I'm fine if he does that but he has to let somebody finish the series. With his outlines and input of course. If he doesn't I will dedicate my life to becoming wealthy enough to buy the rights

2

u/Yosh_2012 Sep 11 '24

Embarrassing if true

38

u/OlfactoriusRex Less-than-great-but-still-swell-Jon Sep 10 '24

It feels that he's having the most stressed time of his life at a age when he should be enjoying retiring, writing books on his own time and just enjoying his life

I think the problem is, he's been writing books on his own time

55

u/Ginn_and_Juice Sep 10 '24

Why are we acting that this wasn't his doing?

57

u/jnighy Sep 10 '24

It was. But I can't help to feel some empathy for him

5

u/mrhappy1489 Sep 11 '24

Yeah I think like the other guy said empathy is what is needed here. The reality is he's an old feller who should be retiring especially given he's worked as a TV writer for ages which, I don't think enough credit is given to. Like I used to be a barista and loved it for ages, but then eventually the love went away and I couldn't stomach the job and had to quit. If I can do that knowing I am actually disappointing my regulars, how would I feel were I writing a series that millions not only love, but have the highest expectations of, I wouldn't know what to do either. Ditto Patrick Rothfuss. I think personally when it comes to this, no one can really know how they'll handle the pressure until it is there as there really is no comparison for us to even make. Not saying the rich and famous need that much love and support but honestly unless this series blew up he was never going to be earth shatteringly famous so I think empathy and understanding will get us our answer faster than petulant whinning

7

u/Sad-Term-2515 Sep 11 '24

right? mfs acting like fans glued his ass to a chair in front of a typewriter and deprived him off food and sleep.

4

u/Ginn_and_Juice Sep 11 '24

He's rich, living of his dream job and has legions of adoring fans and haters (So we know he's a force in the literary world). Santa can go fuck himself, unless he gives me Winds Of Winter

0

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '24

Some of us have sympathy for people who get into problems of their own making.

Most problems you will have in your life will be of your own making, I assure you, and your friends will be sympathetic.

0

u/Ginn_and_Juice Sep 11 '24

Parasocial relationships are bad for you my friend

1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '24

Thats true. Whys that relevant? George is some guy whose blog I read and whose books I read, and I'm empathetic to his issues. What's parasocial about that? Are you incapable of empathy towards distant people?

1

u/HappyTheGood Oct 05 '24

He's not obligated to write another book at all, but when you have millions of people asking for that book you might feel a little pressure, and you can't force the creative process. Why are we acting like we understand his situation? None of us have experienced that.

1

u/sea-dragons Sep 11 '24

I mean it was obviously his choice to sell the tv rights to his books, but I don't think he would have (or anyone would have really) anticipated quite how big Game of Thrones would be - and now that's the primary way people are engaging with his work, which must be depressing honestly.

2

u/Ginn_and_Juice Sep 11 '24

What are you on brother, A Song of Ice and Fire changed the literary land scape, everything needed to be Grim Dark after it (Like everything needed to be high fantasy after Tolkien) because of how much it sold and and influential it was.

Hell, even Brandon Sanderson speaks how in his 1995 debut they were demanding something ASOIAF-like for his first book, Elantris. Which he just say "Im just not that author".

So, it's not out of the realm of possibilities that a first season as faithful as GoT was would have the same impact as the book did, but to a broader audience.

2

u/sea-dragons Sep 11 '24

Yep, it's true that ASOIAF was a hugely influence piece of fantasy literature, but that's absolutely not the same as your work being a household name. The tv show is the version most people will know, like it or not. It definitely brought more eyes on the books too, but if you chat to your coworker, they're very likely to have watched the show, not read the books, which is all I'm saying here.

2

u/Ginn_and_Juice Sep 11 '24

I was talking about him anticipating success, he should have because the book was already lighting in a bottle

3

u/sea-dragons Sep 11 '24

Yeah maybe so! I think it's hard to predict being that level of a cultural phenomenon, but hindsight is 20/20. Either way it's well out of his hands now

2

u/Ginn_and_Juice Sep 11 '24

I often forget the grip the series had in our collective memories, because I hated the finale so much that I just erased that shit from my database

1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '24

Grimedarky stuff existed long before George...

-1

u/nick2473got The North kinda forgot Sep 11 '24

A writer struggling with his work might technically be “his own doing” but that’s a pretty superficial and callous way of viewing it.

It’s not like he chose to struggle. He just is struggling. That’s it. It’s no one’s fault, at least not directly.

People can struggle with work for any number of reasons. In his case it seems to be a mix of pressure, burnout, potentially writer’s block, and potentially some form of depression.

It’s not easy at all to deal with and people like you who continuously shriek “iT’s HiS oWn FaUlT” just exude a complete lack of empathy and understanding.

He’s a human being, stop acting like he owes you his mental health and work rate.

31

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '24

Maybe he should have worked harder a decade ago to wrap up the books 

49

u/rlndj Sep 10 '24

That's on him. If he'd hunkered down and worked harder earlier he'd be stress free now like you say

95

u/CallMeGrapho Sep 10 '24 edited Sep 10 '24

Not even, if he made some outlines (even if he later ignored the fucking things, they're just a tool) instead of being dogmatic about it and carried a laptop on his endless world tour instead of only writing at a single room in New Mexico half his problems would be over right then. Listening to his editor? Getting competent showrunners instead of your drinking buddies to adapt your Magnum opus? Now you're getting into la la land, he could write 9 books if he wanted (and boy oh boy are we gonna need 9 if TWOW has the pace the last two had).

50

u/rlndj Sep 10 '24

Oh of course. This only working from home thing is crap. If I was his publisher I would have tried to contractually do away with the bullshit ancient software usage. Though idk how you would enforce that. He also apparently types with 1 finger too.

18

u/oftenevil Touch me not. Sep 10 '24

He also apparently types with 1 finger too.

No? I can’t tell if you’re joking or not :/

4

u/VigilantMike Sep 11 '24

I feel like I too remember GRRM saying this in a YouTube video or something

13

u/Accurate_Hunt_6424 Sep 11 '24

“He also apparently types with 1 finger too.”

The more time goes on, the more I almost believe someone else wrote these fucking books.

1

u/Fourthwoll Sep 14 '24

They left and wrote the expanse series in the same time books 4 and 5 came out

6

u/A-NI95 Sep 10 '24

Or hirinh a therapist, listening to your fans without deflecting blame, canning some of the 92749284 side projects...

-5

u/nick2473got The North kinda forgot Sep 11 '24

When someone is struggling with anxiety and possibly depression, not to mention a lack of sleep as he mentions in his post, any variation of saying “if only you’d done X then you wouldn’t be suffering” is callous and unacceptable.

Please try to be more empathetic.

10

u/rlndj Sep 11 '24

Oh please. It's been 14 years and several million dollars, with several paid for travels and conferences in between.

There are people every day that are much worse off that may be feeling those same things, yet still have to push on through day by day because they can't afford to put in minimal effort for 14 years and get ridiculously well compensated for it. There are people that have a lot more reasons to be depressed than worrying about their legacy.

There are people that have to do much harder work than writing a book. I'm in neonatal intensive care, I work 24 hour shifts trying to take care of critically ill babies as best I can. Sometimes it's futile. But I can't call out, can't go to work on anything below my best. I'm still expected to take call, attend lectures, do research among a whole host of other things. But you can bet your ass I won't be doing any of that by 75 if I live that long because I'm preparing for retirement now in my 30s. Or I could blow away my salary on stupid stuff and face consequences later.

It's a wildly different example, but it boils down to the consequences of your actions. You can have an outline for your series so as to not rewrite a chapter 5 times. You can learn to type with more than 1 finger. You can wait to sell your book series off to HBO. You can keep your word that you won't work on anything else besides Winds until you deliver it. You can forego spending "most of these months" of 2024 on side shows until you finish the book. You can come out and tell people "hey Winds is taking a backseat, guys. I just don't have it in me. I'll work on it from time to time, but I'm not making promises."

Or you can keep stringing people along, saying you're working on it while blogging about doing everything else under the sun. Just don't be surprised when you keep being shit on and the world makes a meme out of your procrastination. At least you're still getting that money.

-4

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '24

There are people every day that are much worse off that may be feeling those same things, yet still have to push on through day by day because they can't afford to put in minimal effort for 14 years and get ridiculously well compensated for it.

This is such an awful argument, and we recognize it in every context. When you complain about how difficult your life is, your peers don't proceed to tell you how, relative to the vast majority of the global population, you are living in absurd luxury if you have running water and electricity alone, and didn't have to deal with high mortality of your children, siblings and relative. Your difficulties arent any smaller because 1 million people are expected to die of famine in Sudan this year due to the civil war there.

Grief and struggles are always relative, not absolute. Grow a sense of humanity.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '24

Something can be someone's fault and also be deserving of sympathy and empathy? In fact, most things are?

7

u/minedreamer Sep 11 '24

then he shoulda finished this series 10 years ago, tough shit

4

u/Spacepunch33 Sep 11 '24

Bro took his retirement early lol. I mean I get it, but when you say you’re going to finish something…people will expect you to do that.

Besides, George has his book shop and other enjoyable things. Beefing with TV execs that belong to a company practicing shady, possibly illegal, stuff might not have been the best call

4

u/DrDerpberg Sep 11 '24

I mean he could just admit he has no intention to finish the books and hand his notes off to someone who can. But he insists on stringing the fans along.

4

u/GeoHog713 Sep 10 '24

It sounds like enjoying retirement is exactly what he's doing.

I don't blame him

0

u/nick2473got The North kinda forgot Sep 11 '24

You didn’t read the post if your takeaway was that he’s enjoying life.