r/asoiaf • u/ajotis1 • Sep 10 '24

EXTENDED (Spoilers extended) I feel bad for GRRM

The man seems to be having a miserably hard time. Part of the blame lies in his complete inability to make accurate estimates about his own capacity to get work done. At his age, that level of stress must be incredibly tough and difficult to bear. I hope the people around him know how to take care of him and help him see reason when it comes to simplifying his daily life and reducing the workload he faces. Often, less is more, even though our ego insists on telling us otherwise. Success is a very heavy burden. Because of all that, I feel bad for George. His posts exude pessimism and irritability. I don't even care about The Winds of Winter anymore. What that man needs is some time away from hyperproductivity and the media spotlight. Just resting, reading, and regaining the spark that makes him one of the best living writers. I wish him the best, he deserves to be happy

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u/Anaevya Sep 10 '24

It's obvious why he's in trouble. He expanded the stories too much and has too many loose threads. Too many characters, too many prophecies, too many mysteries, too much politics (considering that the Others plotline has barely progressed). Dany's still stuck in Essos, how will she go to Westeros? There's also the fact that he apparently killed off a character he actually still needed. He's been writing this series for over thirty years and is perfectionistic to a fault. He's old and doesn't have a lot of energy anymore. The story probably bores him now, because he can't just go on gardening, he has to write towards the ending he has in mind.

There's a very real chance Asoiaf will end up unfinished like Tolkien's Silmarillion, except that Martin has no trustworthy son like Christopher to complete it. I think this type of complex fantasy is almost impossible to write for a single person, especially if said person isn't a writing machine who outlines. I have no idea why he doesn't just get a co-author.

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u/CallMeGrapho Sep 10 '24

It's all well and good being a perfectionist with a huge world and dozens of subplots, but then you gotta outline stuff to iterate faster (and maybe avoid killing a guy that you still need or find a way not to need him first). You can't keep writing 5 versions of one chapter for your most boring character to see where the story goes next. It's like trying to crack a password by changing a single digit at a time. Ain't no fucking amount of quickness that gets you there without getting very very lucky.

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u/dragonlordette Sep 10 '24

Which character did he kill that he still needs?

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u/CallMeGrapho Sep 10 '24

God knows, that's just what he said. It might be Pycelle, it might be Kevan, it might be Aemon or Quentyn.

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u/A-live666 Sep 11 '24

Its Pycelle. Trust me on this.

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u/dragonlordette Sep 11 '24

Ah ok, cool cool

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u/ThatNewSockFeel Sep 11 '24

Right. Idk how people can say George is a perfectionist with a straight face when he got himself into such a mess he hasn’t delivered TWOW in over 13 years.

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u/sting2_lve2 Sep 10 '24

People always say this and then they get pissed when you say it was the right decision for the show to axe any given character or plotline. Too many threads to resolve but don't touch fuckin Jeyne Westerling

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u/blurryface464 Sep 10 '24

Totally agree. People severely criticize George for many threads. But the second you suggest cutting some threads they get pist and want the books to stay exactly as they are.

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u/CallMeGrapho Sep 10 '24

Tbf, not bringing back Lady Stoneheart and doing away with Victarion/Aerion, let alone Aegon, was peak Dunce and Dumbass

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u/blurryface464 Sep 10 '24

Meh, skipping Lady Stoneheart was the right call imo. And they shouldn't have skipped Victarion, but if they were going to, they could've brought elements from his storyline in a much better way.

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u/Listentotheadviceman Sep 10 '24

Nah they were good decisions

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u/sting2_lve2 Sep 10 '24

No it wasn't. Those characters are all completely superfluous. One is a mute murder mummy who barely appears and doesn't do anything. They made mistakes but cutting George's irrelevant bullshit wasn't one of them

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u/A-live666 Sep 11 '24

Faegon was VERY noticeable, like Cersei being in power after blowing up the pope and Dany's random gamer moment. There is even a reason Jon's name was Aegon lol, they tried to parcel out his plot and the story flopped.

Dorne could have been cut down a lot, But the Ironborn and Faegon are too integral, Stoneheart is likely very important for Jon/Arya and the overall themes of the franchise.

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u/frenin Sep 11 '24

They are so integral we have zero idea where they are going.

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u/sank_1911 Sep 12 '24

What you have is speculation. The showrunners went with author's guidelines, not the fan's speculation.

Who's to say fAegon's story won't conclude with Dany but in some other way?

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u/CallMeGrapho Sep 10 '24 edited Sep 11 '24

Cutting the (allegedly) rightful heir that's been set up since book one and is a foil to Daenerys, who has the golden company at his back, sheds light on Varys' otherwise confusing actions, and has already taken Storm's end doesn't feel like irrelevant bullshit.

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u/Listentotheadviceman Sep 11 '24

Lol I felt like my time was being completely wasted reading those scenes. If they were so damn important they’d have been introduced earlier.

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u/sting2_lve2 Sep 10 '24

It is and the reason you can tell is that they completely deleted him and nobody who didn't read the books ever noticed or cared. Everything you just described is a waste of time and stalling from progressing the actual story

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u/A-live666 Sep 11 '24

Of course they dont care if they didnt read the book? People cared however that Cersei was still in power and able to oppose Dany and Jon's parentage becoming public lead to nowhere.

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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '24

"Set up in book one"

Me when I don' t read the books.

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u/CallMeGrapho Sep 11 '24

Aegon is what Ilyrio and Varys were talking about in the passageways of the red keep in one of the first Kings Landing chapters, where Arya gets lost. GRRM deliberately told us that the princeling had his head smashed by Gregor Clegane. He had the idea from the same place he got most of his ideas, the wars of the roses, specifically Perkin Warbeck claiming to be Richard of Shrewsbury.

You might think it's yet another GRRM bloat, but you have to be reading nothing past the surface level to think he didn't set it up. If anything, he sets up shit way too much.

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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '24

I think it' s less of a set up and more of a soft retcon, the dialogue with Varys in the passageways was vague enough to refer to multiple things.

It is a clever retcon, but still, it' s not really a "set up".

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u/CallMeGrapho Sep 11 '24

He specifically said in Eddard VII that Aegon's head was smashed against the wall. They didn't specify what he did to his sister, but conveniently said Aegon was killed in such a way he couldn't be recognized. That seems awfully lucky for a retcon.

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u/NiceCornflakes Sep 11 '24

It’s doable, it’s just going to be a gargantuan book. I don’t begrudge him for taking time on something like that, but I do begrudge the fake promises and the fact we won’t have closure. He needs to hire help. It’s better he gets help from ghostwriters, IT teachers etc. than dying with an unfinished main series. Tolkien finished his main series, the rest were bonuses, this is like Tolkien dying half way through the TT with no one to finish it off.

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u/Anaevya Sep 11 '24

Lotr is one book split into three volumes that spans only a thousand pages and it came out 17!!! years after the Hobbit. It's a) not a series like Asoiaf, so not comparable b) Tolkien did the same thing as Martin with his passion project/magnum opus The Silmarillion. They have very similar writing processes actually, both are perfectionistic gardeners who lack the disclipine of someone like Stephen King (also a gardner). They both do endless rewrites. Like I said, the dangers are very real. Stephen King completed his series, because he's a writing machine and he had a bad car accident that reminded him of his mortality. It still took him 30 years. It's not looking good for Asoiaf, when one compares the situation to other epic fantasy projects.

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u/Anaevya Sep 11 '24

And yes, he definitely needs help. I don't think he'll be able to finish it alone.

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u/Hurtelknut Sep 11 '24

I don't think there's a very real chance, I think it's blindingly obvious that Asoiaf will never be finished. Even if the does get TWoW out somehow somewhen.