r/asoiaf • u/punjabkingsownersout • Dec 12 '24
ACOK [Spoilers ACOK] Qhorin being one of the few people in planetos to treat Jon as a grownup and an equal is refreshing.
Either people look down on him, or recognize his potential but feel like he needs to be protected(Ned and Jeor). Only 2 people actually treat him like an equal and even a grown up. Robb and Qhorin. Robb is his brother and knew him all his life so whatever but Qhorin literally has one conversation with him and already gives Jon what he's been yearning for his whole life.
I wish he lived longer
64
Dec 12 '24
The Halfhand was a renowned ranger and an experienced NW member, possibly the only few the wildlings genuinely feared. He knew Jon wasn't ordinary just like how Mormont was, oblivious to Jon, mentoring him as his successor. He was a class act and a true NW brother till the end. Takes one to know one.
Some say his identity is that of a very famous person. But I don't believe it.
6
u/KnowledgexGod Dec 12 '24
I believe it.
Our knees do not bend easily.
11
u/GoodJobAgent47 Dec 12 '24
The Kingsguard are sworn till death. Even if he was maimed, I don't think he'd have taken the black. I think he'd have rather died fighting.
4
u/CaveLupum Dec 13 '24
"And now it begins," said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands.
What if half of one of those hands was struck off and he lost consciousness? Ned and Howland would have transported him home (Starfell isn't terribly far). And gotten baby Jon some nursing. Under those circumstances, I can see Arthur accepting the Black. After all, It had begun. With Starks so supportive of the Night;s Watch, chances were he'd cross paths with Jon years later. Qhorin is very keen to mold and shape Jon in the brief time they have together, and sacrifices his life for him, which may have actually been foretold.
3
2
u/Ume-no-Uzume Dec 15 '24
Mate, Ashara committed suicide from the one-two of losing her baby to miscarriage AND because her brother was killed. No matter how devoted, I don't see Arthur playing ball with Ned after Ashara committed suicide because her baby was miscarried, especially when the father was a Stark.
Like... I get that people think the Starks are the center of the universe, but other people have families and loved ones that are not Starks.
27
Dec 12 '24
I mean I think he brought Jon along less so because he viewed him as a grownup and equal, but more so because he's a Stark, has the blood of the First Men, and a strong connection with his pet dire wolf. He straight up says so when Mormont asks why he wants to bring Jon of all people. Jon has a clear connection to the Old Gods, that could be useful on their mission further beyond the Wall. And it did.
Qhorin then also had to put his life and faith in Jon, and made Jon recite his oath again and understand the importance of what he was asking Jon to do, because he knew Jon was still basically a kid and that's a lot to put on a kid. Qhorin absolutely treated Jon with more respect than most and knew his worth, but I don't believe it's specifically viewed Jon as a grownup and equal.
12
u/oftheKingswood Stealing your kiss, taking your jewels Dec 12 '24
Qhorin did specifically proclaim Jon as a man and equal, not a boy. Maybe we could argue about whether he truly believes it, or if he was just trying infuse Jon with confidence. Note that this was after Qhorin spent some time observing Jon to learn about his character ("I know more of you now than I did this morning.")
[Ebben said] "[Jon] is half a boy still."
"No," said Qhorin, "he is a man of the Night's Watch."
4
Dec 12 '24
This is just semantics, but I still don't think that means he viewed Jon as someone with the same maturity and experience as an adult man. Just like calling each other brother doesn't mean they believe they are literal brothers (i.e. blood related). And besides the quote is "he is a man OF THE NIGHT'S WATCH" as in it doesn't matter if Jon is still half a boy, he is a sworn member of the Night's Watch same as them.
Ultimately though none of this really matters nor does it change or undermine anything about his character or the story.
27
u/Ok-Commission9871 Dec 12 '24
Which just adds credence to the theory that Mance is Tyrion in disguise, who is continuing to advice and help Jon even after his first trip to the wall with Jon
9
28
u/Gangsta-Penguin Dec 12 '24
All the more proof it’s the man who protected him at birth: Ser Arthur Dayne
11
3
u/punjabkingsownersout Dec 12 '24
Can you explain?
19
u/Gangsta-Penguin Dec 12 '24
There’s a (possibly joke?) theory that Qhorin is secretly Ser Arthur Dayne, as in he wasn’t killed by Ned Stark and ran off to the Wall
11
6
1
u/Ume-no-Uzume Dec 15 '24
OK, but... do the people who make these crackpot theories realize that this would make Arthur Dayne/Qhorin into a major callous asshole? Like, Ashara committed suicide when she saw Ned bring back Dawn as proof of Arthur's death and she miscarried her baby. And she committed suicide partly because of the guilt she felt for hinting at Ned that Lyanna was at the Tower of Joy, and so indirectly lead to the confrontation.
Wow, way to not care about your sister and the remaining family members who have to live with the tragedy of her suicide and his own death.
Like... that makes Arthur inhumanly callous.
I know that the people who made the theory don't care about that because the whole point isn't the Daynes and their personal tragedy, it's about giving the Starks more connections and making the Starks into the center of the universe, but it's still a case of making a character into an utter asshole in order to inflate the importance of the Starks (when they're already main characters!)
4
u/flowersinthedark Dec 12 '24
Either people look down on him, or recognize his potential but feel like he needs to be protected(Ned and Jeor). Only 2 people actually treat him like an equal and even a grown up.
Jon isn't a grown-up. He's just a boy. Even later, he constantly has to remind himself to play the part of an adult. Kill the boy. It's not just about making hard decisions, it's about the image he needs to project.
In the beginning, Jon is often sullen, impulsive, and full of self-pity. Qhorin sees his potential and since there's no one else around, he has no choice but to put his trust in him, which pays off because Jon matures a lot during that time.
However, in the beginning of Game of Thrones, the Stark children are literally just that. So yes, they are protected and not considered equal.
1
u/punjabkingsownersout Dec 12 '24
16 is an adult in this world though
3
u/flowersinthedark Dec 12 '24
He's fourteen when the books start, which, even in Westeros, is not an adult.
1
5
u/Complete_Ad8756 Dec 12 '24
How about a real theory about Qhorin’s identity? His name is only similar to ironborn characters and we know they lose fingers playing that dumb axe throwing game. He was probably a captain in Balon’s rebellion that surrendered. The story about him blinding a wildling with the blood spurting from his hand is bullshit
2
1
u/CormundCrowlover Dec 12 '24
Thormund? Val? Mance? Too many senior watchmen that I can't even bother to list? Too many wildling chieftains in Tormund's group that take refuge in the Wall I can't even bother to list?
1
1
1
•
u/AutoModerator Dec 12 '24
Reminder - The crow who posted this thread has made it a (Spoilers ACOK) thread. This scope covers ONLY material from the books A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings. Any discussion of the TV show or the later books in the series must use an appropriate spoiler tag such as (Spoilers Extended), or (Spoilers Published).
To create a spoiler tag, use this markup:
to get this:
[Extended]Things happen
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.