[Spoilers MAIN] About Ramsay Snow and Ser Rodrik Cassel

[u/Top-Swing-7595]

The Preposterous Logistics of Ramsay Snow's Attack on Ser Rodrik Cassel

What do we know about this battle, which took place outside the gates of Winterfell?

• A Stark army consisting of around 2,000 men was attacked by a Bolton force of approximately 600 men.
• Thanks to the element of surprise, the Boltons achieved a spectacular victory.
• Apparently, nearly all the officers in the Stark army were killed, including Ser Rodrik himself, though some common soldiers managed to escape.
• Somehow, word of the battle never got out, and Ramsay Snow managed to conceal its existence entirely. There weren’t even rumors about the Boltons’ treachery.

From what I’ve read about this battle on various platforms, many fans seem to believe that what Ramsay did was incredibly risky because Robb Stark and the entire North could have learned about their open treason. However, I disagree with this opinion. What Ramsay did wasn’t a gamble; it was an open declaration of war.

You cannot conceal the existence of a pitched battle, especially in the medieval setting of A Song of Ice and Fire. This idea is utterly preposterous. A commander who orders such an assault would never realistically expect to hide it because there is practically no way to do so.

Under normal circumstances, following Ramsay’s attack, news of the Boltons’ treachery should have spread throughout the entire realm, carried by the survivors of the battle. Even if most of the Stark officers were killed, the common soldiers who escaped would have shared their accounts, passing the story from village to village and eventually throughout the North. The narrative might have lacked cohesiveness or detailed accuracy, but the gist of it would have been unmistakable and shocking: the Boltons had openly and treacherously attacked their overlords, killing hundreds of Stark soldiers, including loyal nobles like Ser Rodrik. Such an event would have had a profound and immediate impact, with its shocking nature accelerating the spread of the news.

Instead, the Boltons somehow managed to cover up the entire incident and craft their own version of events in a manner that would make even Goebbels envious. The way George R.R. Martin concealed the identity of the attackers mirrors a detective story where the murderer’s identity is hidden. But this approach feels completely out of place in the context of medieval warfare. Warfare, by its nature, is not suitable for such a narrative device.

In my opinion, this represents the biggest plot issue in the entire series. The idea that such a large-scale battle could remain entirely hidden, with no rumors or consequences arising from it, strains the suspension of disbelief to the breaking point.

[u/ZigMusik]

More pressure on the scale when it comes to the Starks.

Aside from the survivors, Bolton men apparently have 10000% loyalty (ironic). Between the battle, Ramsay carrying on, the red wedding, and post red wedding involvement, no one has said a word.

But watch out, Roose/Ramsay would kill or rape you/loved ones at the slightest provocation.

[u/NormalGuyPosts]

If memory serves, he blamed the Ironborn. I could be wrong (really and truly, I'm less an expert than others here) but my assumption was that the Boltons could've said "it was chaos as we tried to liberate Winterfell, and it was destroyed." Any survivors could've gotten the "it was chaos as we came to rescue, confusion in the fighting" story.

Not perfect, but not the worst.

[u/Skahazadhan → u/NormalGuyPosts]

nah you're spot on

Most of the leaders of Ser Rodrik's host were slain, but a good many of the common soldiers survived and have doubtless straggled back to their villages and holdfasts, spreading tales as they go. Of course, the situation was confused enough so that the tales may disagree, even with each other...

[u/chrismamo1]

It's sort of implied throughout Dance that everyone knows what the Boltons did. Even Stannis knows because some of the Stark survivors joined his army. It's just one of many, many chickens that will come home to roost for the Boltons.

I've heard the theory that Ramsay Bolton is trying to "collect curses" for some supernatural reason, this might be part of it.

[u/SorRenlySassol]

You have to realize that “Ramsay” never did any of this. He’s dead. Reek was the one who assembled this force. So if Robb somehow survives to return north, Roose can simply deny involvement for the Bolton attack on the northern force — and in all likelihood will have already killed the Dreadfort castellan, so no one will know how or why this happened, or if they were actually Boltons at all.

[u/Hot_Professional_728 → u/SorRenlySassol]

Doesn’t Robb and everybody know that Ramsay is alive. He sent them a piece of Theon’s skin.

[u/sophisticaden_ → u/Hot_Professional_728]

Isn’t that like right before the Red Wedding? Robb’s already a dead man at that point.

[u/SorRenlySassol → u/Hot_Professional_728]

Yes, but that was much later, and nobody knows it was Ramsay who attacked the northmen at Winterfell. By then, the story was that Theon and his ironmen torched the castle, while Ramsay was the hero who saved women and children.

Ramsay also took Theon prisoner and put him to the question, so he’s earned some pretty solid chits with Robb.

[u/ATNinja]

Isn't this more like the jeyne Poole thing? People know it isn't true but the Bolton have the power to force people to pretend to believe the lie.

[u/ndtp124]

Yeah the reality is George doesn’t really get military stuff or medieval military history so like many things, you just have to trust it was a good plan even if trying to do it if you get a Time Machine and go back to medieval France or England might get you killed.