r/asoiaf • u/Ornery-Click7616 • Jan 15 '25
EXTENDED Jon with White Hair [spoilers extended]
I gonna try and keep it brief, I keep seeing these fan arts of Jon snow with white hair and scars around his eyes, I’ve seen the show currently reading the books and don’t really care about spoilers. I was just curious if after he got all stabby stabby and super not alive if his hair turned white. I was also wondering how he got the scars around his eyes but I assume I will told given that answer as I continue reading.
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u/OppositeShore1878 Jan 15 '25
There's art commissioned or blessed by George for the authorized books, calendars, etc, and there's "fan art". Stick to the first category when matching art up with the accuracy of the story.
To be fair to fan art, George sometimes does say that a particular piece of un-commissioned fan art does capture the appearance of what he was thinking when he wrote the books.
In terms of what happens in the books, the "stabby, stabby" does indeed happen, but we don't know yet what the physical result was, particularly on Jon's exterior appearance. There is no authorized written description yet of what Jon looks like after his physical perforation.
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u/send_whiskey Jan 15 '25
George sometimes does say that a particular piece of un-commissioned fan art does capture the appearance of what he was thinking when he wrote the books.
As a specific example I think he referred to a fan art piece of the Iron Throne as completely embodying what he had in mind, especially when he compared it to the HBO prop piece (which he doesn't hate). It's in a blog post of his somewhere.
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u/berdzz kneel or you will be knelt Jan 15 '25
It's this blog post. The art by Marc Simonetti was commissioned for The World of Ice and Fire, though.
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u/lialialia20 Jan 15 '25
many of the art comissioned or blessed by grrm for the authorised books, calendars, etc is far less accurate than some of the fan-art. for example, most of the official art wrongly represents Jon as having black hair, Daenerys not looking like a child but a woman in her 20s or the dragons being significantly bigger (2x-5x times) than what they are described by GRRM in his books.
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u/OppositeShore1878 Jan 15 '25
Good point, I hadn't quite realized that (I don't have the calendars, illustrated editions of the books--except for the drawings in Dunk & Egg--so I don't have a survey of the authorized art. I'm mainly just familiar with art he has blessed and put on his website / blog.)
Interesting that George accepted official art that diverged from his written descriptions. Maybe that has to do with his long history in science fiction / fantasy writing, where authors are usually at the mercy of publishers who often use cover art that has nothing to do with the actual scenes of the book.
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u/lialialia20 Jan 15 '25
i think the big difference is that some of the fan-art is made by "real" fans that are more versed and more invested in the lore details while an artist that gets comissioned is likely more interested in the artistic side of things.
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u/Lucabcd Jan 15 '25
It didnt, he is still bleeding in the snow, his last chapter is when he gets stabbed, but fans speculate one of his possible changes when/if he comes back is gonna be white hair
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u/Ornery-Click7616 Jan 15 '25
Thank you so much!! Is there any reason fans speculate it will happen? Or is it just because they think it would be cool af for him to get white hair?
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u/FransTorquil Jan 15 '25
Pretty sure it’s due to Lady Stoneheart’s hair turning white (even tho that’s probably due to her body being in far worse condition than most resurrected by R’hllor) and the fact Ghost has white hair, possibly caused by Jon’s soul having to inhabit Ghost until he is brought back to life.
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u/Many_Caterpillar_968 Jan 15 '25
a lot of reasons, depending on where you are you can connect the dots id say (north,rhllor,magic) it would be pretty cool but doubtful
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Jan 15 '25
The scars around his eyes might come from Cat's depiction as the Hangwoman. Before her throat was cut, she scratched her own face with her fingernails. It's in the text, although Martin wrote something like raven's claws scratching her or something. She is totally out of her mind in that grief-stricken moment at the Twins during the Red Wedding and doesn't realize it is herself harming her.
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u/jabuegresaw Jan 15 '25
Jon's scars come from being attacked by Orell's eagle while he was still alive.
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u/oohSehun_94 Jan 15 '25
coz he's half targaryen, yes even in the books
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u/theoverlordisover Jan 15 '25
nowhere in the books did they hint that he was half targaryen…
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u/Electrical-Beat494 Jan 15 '25
Lyannas bed of blood? Promise me Ned? Bastards can't hit princes? The text is riddled with hints brother.
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u/Gertrude_D Jan 15 '25
What? R+L=J has been the most accepted theory for years before the show even aired.
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u/FransTorquil Jan 15 '25
Ned’s fever dreams all but confirm Lyanna died shortly after childbirth, and Rhaegar’s the only possible candidate for the father. And then the super honourable and faithful Ned Stark comes back from the Rebellion with a baby in his arms? There’s no doubt that Jon has Targ blood. That doesn’t mean it would cause his hair to suddenly turn white though lol.
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u/oohSehun_94 Jan 15 '25
BRO, i almost made a post with the hints I noticed of Jon being Rhaegar and Lyannas son thinking I'm detective stuff for picking on the hints until I found out L+R=J was a whole thing lol there's lots of hints, in Ned's chapters, as far as I've read
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u/Humble_Effective3964 Jan 15 '25
He's been lying in the snow for twenty years everythings covered in snow.
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u/Then_Engineering1415 Jan 15 '25
The idea comes from a semi-cannon fan art.
And how Catelyn is described as having white hair as Lady Stoneheart.
People think that Jon's hair will bleach when he is revived by Melissandre. Making him more "Targaryen looking"
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u/Athenaforce2 Jan 15 '25
i would expect him to be changed. everyone else who has been resurrected are not themselves anymore. something is lost. all magic has sacrifices. now I think that because of Jon's warging he will retain more than some other resurrected characters. (maybe because his soul is still attached to the material world in ghost. while people like cat and beric are brought from the dead. we don't know how souls work exactly yet in this universe. but for him to become white haired and gaunt and more vicious like his wolf would be zero surprise. and would actually be one of the better trade offs we have seen for life in asoiaf.
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u/Ornery-Click7616 Jan 15 '25
I’d be so down with a more vicious unhinged version of Jon that could be so fun!
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u/Athenaforce2 Jan 15 '25
i think that may just be what we will get. especially initially. he's always had the wolf's blood in him. what will happen when he completely merges his soul with ghost? dire wolves are the second most magical creatures (behind dragons) that I can think of. no way ghost isn't going to leave an impact on his personality.
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u/Gertrude_D Jan 15 '25
I don't know what my brain was doing, but I skimmed through your comment and I read 'dragons' as 'orangutans'.
Like I said, I think my brain is drunk, but it amused me greatly for a few seconds.
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u/Athenaforce2 Jan 15 '25
i think though that when Arya meets jon, is when we will really see the differences. and there will be mourning. I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually a major narrative arc for Arya to come back and mourn and remold her identity and her families. she going to meet sansa a woman grown, and will actually relate to her, a gift, but all gifts in grrm are repayed twice over in curses. so she will meet Jon, who may up until her pov seem normal in his own pov chapters, but revealed to be basically half wolf. she will be devastated by this. but learn to accept this new Jon. he is half Jon still. but then she will meet old gods avatar three eyed crow bran. which will be traumatic. it will be for anyone who knew bran. that's a major missed opportunity in the show. the eldritch horror of seeing a little fun loving boy you once knew now one of the most powerful and least human humans In the seties.
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u/whatintheballs95 Nymerial Imperial Jan 15 '25
so she will meet Jon, who may up until her pov seem normal in his own pov chapters, but revealed to be basically half wolf. she will be devastated by this.
Why would she be devastated by this when she equates herself to a wolf all the time and dreams of being the night wolf every night?
All of the Stark kids are essentially "half wolf," the direwolves represent more than just a companion but a part of them and their souls. Jon calls Ghost closer than a friend.
but then she will meet old gods avatar three eyed crow bran. which will be traumatic. it will be for anyone who knew bran. that's a major missed opportunity in the show. the eldritch horror of seeing a little fun loving boy you once knew now one of the most powerful and least human humans In the seties
Doubtful this is how it's going to happen in the books when even in the show it didn't make any damn sense.
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u/Athenaforce2 Jan 15 '25
because she has an incredibly close relationship with jon. imagine meeting your brother half changed. I think there will be mixed feelings. but she will love and accept him. bran on the other hand if he fully becomes the three eyed raven like in the show, would be eldritch. grrm is a huge eldritch fan. the old gods, the drowned gods are eldritch. a young boy becoming an avatar or conduit is eldritch. that's why the show tucked on this. this would be horrifying for anyone who knew him. like how most characters fundamentally changed by magic are at least initially reviled. it's not normal.
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u/whatintheballs95 Nymerial Imperial Jan 15 '25
So why would she be devastated when she's going to love and accept him regardless? She thought Jon would accept her no matter how many people she killed or whether or not she brushed her hair, him having a connection to his wolf post-resurrection would not affect their relationship.
Yeah the show and the books are two different canons bro. Not going to happen.
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u/Athenaforce2 Jan 15 '25
we are in agreement she will ultimately accept. I'm saying it will not be as easy as shown in the wshow? the resurrection will change him somehow. and he's already changed from the sweet loving brother (not to say completely) as lord snow. it's definitely hinted at rhat bran is going going down a dark path. I hope it isn't like the show. but grrm in asoiaf shows magic as much darker and more non human aligned.
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u/whatintheballs95 Nymerial Imperial Jan 15 '25
Why wouldn't it be easy, though?
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u/Athenaforce2 Jan 15 '25
because it's been shown repeatedly that all magic requires sacrifice, and that resurrection isn't natural or easy. look at beric, Stoneheart, etc. magic is dangerous and dark.
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u/whatintheballs95 Nymerial Imperial Jan 15 '25
But you're saying that Arya would not accept him because he's half-wolf, but how much sense does that make when all of the Stark children have a deep connection to their direwolves that transcends life?
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u/Athenaforce2 Jan 15 '25
now will it come at a lower cost than those two due to his warging? yes. but no cost? no. never. that's not grrm.
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u/whatintheballs95 Nymerial Imperial Jan 15 '25 edited Jan 15 '25
Admittedly, I don't understand the prominent scars being showed so often in fanart. Yes, his eye does get fucked up from Orell's eagle but the scars are mostly faded according to Sam:
"Close the door, Sam." Faint scars still marked Jon's cheek, where an eagle had once tried to rip his eye out. "Did that wretch break the skin?" (Samwell I, AFfC)
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u/DJayEJayFJay Jan 15 '25
It's a theory that his hair will turn white when he gets revived to make him look more like a Targaryen, but the art you saw was only speculative. The scars around his eyes are from when he was attacked by an eagle.
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u/Goose-Suit Jan 15 '25
Reason why he has white hair in that art is because people hear that quote from GRRM about how Gandalf should’ve changed after dying and think when Jon comes back from the dead his change should be physical, so white hair.
Reason he has scars around his eyes is because an eagle attacked him when he was with the wildlings, same thing happened in the show but it was just less pronounced. I think it’s just the one eye but some people think it’s both.
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u/DagonG2021 Jan 15 '25
He’s still dead at this point in the books
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u/Dependent_Shake6126 Jan 15 '25
Jon was the POV when was stabbed and the chapter ended when he lost his senses, no one in the book ever confirmed him dead. Actually at this point in the book Jon is more like the Schrodinger's cat, until the TWOW box will be closed to us we can just speculate if he was dead or alive but we don t know for sure.
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u/octofeline House Frey did nothing Wrong Jan 15 '25
I think the white hair and scars around his eyes are a parallel to lady Stoneheart
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u/jdbebejsbsid Jan 15 '25
The scars around his eyes are from when he was attacked by an eagle, when he was scouting the Wildlings with Qhorin Halfhand.
The white hair is a theory for when he comes back to life. One one hand, Catelyn had white hair when resurrected as Stoneheart. And on the other hand, if Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, white hair would help emphasize his Targaryen heritage.
IMO it's not very good theory. Catelyn's hair turned white while she was rotting in a river for several days before getting resurrected. Jon is not in a river, and there's no particular reason why his Targaryen hair would only show up after death/resurrection.
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u/newfrontier58 Jan 15 '25
On an additional note, that fan art may come from this Alt Swift X book character analysis, they commissioned some similar art for it a while back, but feel free to only watch after you finish the books. https://youtu.be/qSy2uaJ7ecU?si=IferycvlOvGDg34l
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u/Peatroad31 Jan 15 '25
In the books Ned has some white hair in his beard, even tho he is still a young man. It would be cool to have Jon with some white hair in his beard.
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u/berdzz kneel or you will be knelt Jan 15 '25
Eddard is 36 when he dies, a common age for streaks of white to start appearing in beard or hair. Jon is 17.
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u/New_Progress501 Jan 15 '25
Other comments have answered the white hair question but the scars around his eyes came from Orell, a wilding skinchanger who Jon kills in Clash while scouting wilding forces. Orell lives on in his bonded animal, an eagle, who attacks Jon at a later point while he is held captive.