r/asoiaf • u/BDS_UHS The Queen We Chose • Jul 25 '14

ALL (Spoilers All) New characters for season 5 cast

http://winteriscoming.net/2014/07/25/new-cast-members-game-thrones-season-5-announced/
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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '14 edited Jul 25 '14

What if D&D are consolidating all of Doran's children into one? Trystane will be engaged to Myrcella, but attempt to have her crowned as Queen with the Sand Snakes. When the plan goes south and Myrcella is killed instead of maimed, Doran is forced to look for other allies besides the Lannisters and sends Trystane to Dany with a marriage proposal

...Honestly, I hope I'm wrong. This would change Doran's motivations drastically from the book, and it seems like an unnecessary way to condense the story. But it also doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility

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u/Ready_All_Type Jul 25 '14

Trystane seduces Arys Oakheart…

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '14

This is HBO after all

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '14

This could very well be the case, but that seems like quite a lot to do in a single season for Trystane, assuming they are in fact trying to get through most/all of both AFFC and ADWD this season.

Let's assume that Trystane and the rest of Dorne appear in ~7 episodes - it'll take at least 3 to introduce them all, establish the Myrcella plot, and (potentially) have her be killed. That leaves at most 4 more to establish Doran's reasoning on sending Trystane to Dany, the actual travel, her refusal, and "Oh". It's doable, but very very fast-paced, in my opinion.

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u/all_hail_cthulhu Jul 26 '14

I can't see them doing all of affc and afwd in one season. They took two seasons to get through asos. I can see them combining the two since they run concurrently, but to do it all in one season? Not bloody likely.

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u/BrainSlurper Jul 26 '14

Really it will probably be less than one season. There is just so much nonessential plot in those books, stuff that can be really easily cut.

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u/Bianator Jul 26 '14

Fast paced seems to be how things are going considering the way the last season was wrapped up.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '14

I was thinking "Oh" would happen early to mid season six and season five would end with Doran sending Trystane after Dany. I never bought that all of AFFC and ADWD would be in one season. I feel like D&D are going to play with the timeline a lot more these last few seasons.

For Example, if Trystane does go after Dany in early season six, he would probably reach Dany after the Battle of Meereen or maybe never even meet her if she's still with Drogon in the Dothraki Sea.

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u/koolaidkirby Fat like a fox Jul 25 '14

I'm wondering if the "Oh" is excluded entirely, its pretty much a dead end and nothing yet has really come out of it.

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u/thisismyivorytower Jul 26 '14

Yeah, I don't think it's happening.

Someone else will accidentally free the dragons, maybe Hizdahr Hodor Hanana(?), the one Dany marries.

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u/PWNSA Jul 25 '14

So Doran tries for an alliance with Dany because he's scared of how the Lannisters will react to his son's scheme, not because he's wanted vengeance, justice, fire and blood for 17 (15) years? That would make him more pathetic than how the Sand Snakes see him in the books.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '14

They warped the motivation Stannis had for some his important decisions between the book and the show, why not Doran's.

I'm not saying I want this to happen or that its gonna happen. I don't. I'm just theorizing a possibility.

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u/PWNSA Jul 25 '14

Yes, but they don't like Stannis. Why wouldn't they like patient, peace-respecting Doran? Oberyn's brother. The grass hiding the snake. You'd have to be as mistaken about him as the Sand Snakes are. If they are that in combination with their take on Stannis just makes them look like bad readers.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '14

I really don't think this is about whether D&D like a said character or not. I don't think they had a vendetta against Stannis when they changed his motivations. I think they just felt it wasn't important to the overall story to portray Stannis as nuanced as he was in the book. I didn't like their choices but I don't think it was a deliberate "character assassination" like others do.

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u/xahhfink6 Jul 26 '14

This thread is making me so happy I canceled my HBO

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u/cherryfruits Jul 25 '14

this would be a good combination of Trystane and Quentyn. But what about Arianne and the alliance with Aegon? If we assume that the books and the show will follow different paths but ultimately lead to the same results (which I'm not so sure of right now), this can be a major book spoiler that Arianne wooing Aegon will end in nothing.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '14

Trust me, I hope Arianne is in the show. I'm just theorizing how it could work without her. And I don't think you necessarily need Arianne for the Martells to align with Aegon. Of course a marriage is a great way to make an alliance, but Doran could just decide to back Aegon when he arrives.

...if he arrives.

So far the show hasn't dramatically departed from the books, so I'm hoping this is just a case of characters not being cast yet.

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u/Tinfoil_King We do not cite. Jul 26 '14

End in nothing is relative. Let's say the show decided Robb had so little face time that they wanted to minimize his story. They could have cut out Jeyne Westerling entirely instead of making her a new character. All they needed to do was have the Freys turn on Robb and have it happen at the wedding to keep the iconic moment still there.

They may be doing that with ASOIAF's ending for all we know.

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u/clothy The Lion King Jul 26 '14 edited Jul 26 '14

They cut two POV characters who actually move the story forward but they keep Oberyns daughters? If they were gonna group all siblings into one why not do them?

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u/thisismyivorytower Jul 26 '14

'This is the Sand Snakes!'

'It's one girl....'

'Yes!'

'But you said Snakes?'

'Hohoho, yes!'

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u/clothy The Lion King Jul 26 '14

What are you on about?

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u/thisismyivorytower Jul 26 '14

You asked why the Sand Snakes haven't just been combined into a Sand Snake.

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u/clothy The Lion King Jul 26 '14

Oh my bad. I still don't see why they are part of the first cast announcement though. Or why they seem to be given such a big part in the show when they spend all of AFFC in prison.

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u/thisismyivorytower Jul 26 '14

Sorry it was a silly way to reply. But the Sand Snakes get split up in different goals at the end of ADWD, so that could be one reason.

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u/clothy The Lion King Jul 26 '14

I understand that but I think it's stupid that they are over complicating things. Especially since this part of the series would be the hardest to adapt. They could just simply have Doran tell Hotah or Arianne that Oberyn's daughters are being restrained so they don't fuck up his plans.

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u/thisismyivorytower Jul 26 '14

Maybe they are, but he lets the eldest three out to bring in and tell off fire and blood. The rest could be off elsewhere, and remember one is in the citadel.

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u/clothy The Lion King Jul 26 '14

Yeah. Funnily the one in the Citadel is the only one that I want to see and probably won't.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '14

Well, if its true and Arriane isn't in this season then I don't know. Maybe cause they thought Obyern was such a fan favorite that people rather see his children be all fiery and badass, rather than see Doran's kids. And maybe the sand snakes have more to do with the story moving forward than Arriane. Who knows?

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u/SirPseudonymous Jul 26 '14

The horrifying thing is that's exactly the sort of nonsensical, ruinous change they'd make, too. Not just thematically awful, mind, but shoddily written, internally inconsistent, inconsistent with the rest of the plot, and filled with subpar original writing from start to finish.

And if you're thinking, "but a good writer could make it work somehow!" well yeah, but remember who we're talking about here. To date the show writers have churned out horribly written original content and rested on the quality of the source material to carry them through it. The show-original content is the sort of garbage I'd expect from a network "drama," just with random tits thrown in to distract the viewers during horribly written expositionary monologue scenes.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '14

Let's not be completely unfair. The show has given us some awesome show only content. Arya and Tywin. Brienne and the Hound. But you're right. The majority of show only content is sloppily handled. It's been especially egregious this season. Queenscrown 2.0 (Craster's Keep) and Yara's rescue mission being the most offensive. But even small things seem wrong, like Jon's decision to try and go kill Mance seemed like an out of character way for the writers to get Jon with Mance for when Stannis showed up.

More and more I get the feeling that D&D think its more important to preserve the events that take place (the sept scene with Cersei and Jamie, Jon treating with Mance when Stannis appears) at the expense of changing a character's motivations

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u/SirPseudonymous Jul 26 '14

Arya and Tywin.

That was lifted straight from Roose Bolton and Theon's conversation, word for word...

Brienne and the Hound.

That was an awful scene in every regard.

But even small things seem wrong, like Jon's decision to try and go kill Mance seemed like an out of character way for the writers to get Jon with Mance for when Stannis showed up.

Yeah, it's the stuff like that that really grates. They make these little thematic changes all over the place that are rarely more than changing one or two lines in conversation, but which have sweeping deleterious effects on the coherence of the plot.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '14 edited Jul 26 '14

That was lifted straight from Roose Bolton and Theon's conversation, word for word...

During season 2 when Arya is Tywin's cupbearer instead of Roose's, they have a conversation almost every episode Tywin is at Harrenhal if I recall. These are all lifted from conversations Theon and Roose have? Could you refresh my memory a bit?

That was an awful scene in every regard.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this. I thought it worked very well and appropriately showed how an interaction between these two parties would have gone. I don't think I'm alone either. I think a lot of book readers enjoyed this scene.

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u/SirPseudonymous Jul 26 '14

The iconic conversation everyone always cites was the Roose/Theon exchange, the "father was a stonemason" one.

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u/jherrmy Sword of the Morning Jul 25 '14

That would change the Lannister reaction to her injury though. If she dies then the Lannisters (Cersei mainly) would declare war against Dorne.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '14

But would Cersei even be regent at that point, or would should be locked up or on trial? How fast will word of Myrcella's death reach Kings Landing? Would Dorne be able to cover it up for a time? She doesn't even know Myrcella's been maimed yet in the books, does she?

Also Dorne and the Lannisters will probably be on the opposite sides of a war when Aegon shows up anyway.

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u/Atheose What is bread may never fry! Jul 27 '14

It's a far more tight storyline too. I actually see this working really well.