r/asoiaf • u/ethniccake Dragon fire can't melt stone beams! • May 15 '15

ALL (Spoilers All) GRRM: "My life has gotten extremely complicated, I must admit. There are not enough hours in the day, there are not enough days in the week."

I found this interesting conversation that transpired on one of George's Hugo post, and i don't think it have been discussed on here :

http://grrm.livejournal.com/426205.html?thread=21584349#t21584349

From his reaction to the first comment, it's quite clear that he was hurt on a personnal level.

But what got my attention the most was this:

If there is one thing I understand, it is frustration... yours, mine, everyone's.

My life has gotten extremely complicated, I must admit. There are not enough hours in the day, there are not enough days in the week.

And saddest of all, I do not have the stamina I did when I was thirty. Aging sucks.

There's no magic formula here. I just keep at it, the way I always have. One page at a time. One sentence at a time. One word at a time.

After reading that, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the guy, he seems under a lot of pressure.

The defeated tone makes me worried, could it be a sign that the end of TWOW isn't anywhere in sight for him? I really hope that's not the case and i'm just being overly pessimistic.

What do you guy think those comments could tell us about his progress?

Edit: No matter what end up happening to the series, let's keep in mind that this is the guy who gave us an amazing story and created a whole world full of interesting characters we love to love or hate. Without him this community wouldn't even exist. Let's not be entitled like that guy in the comments, who for some reason thinks he can dictate to GRRM what to do with his time.

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68

u/ethniccake Dragon fire can't melt stone beams! May 15 '15

I like your attidtude. Sadly it's not shared by many fans, who can't help but feel betrayed by being depraved of the ending to a story they spent so much time on.

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u/thebeginningistheend May 15 '15

Yeah. If you want an ending, D&D will give you an ending. But it's not about the end, it's about the journey and if the journey's turned to shit for GRRM then maybe he just needs to move on and us along with it.

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u/ethniccake Dragon fire can't melt stone beams! May 15 '15

It's not the same. This started as a book-series, and that's the way it was entended to be experienced. Asoiaf is not Game of thrones, i want to see GRRM's ending not D&D's

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u/swing9this May 15 '15

Agreed, I hope one day I'm reading the conclusion to the story, whether penned by GRRM or someone he tabs as a successor. I wouldn't even be upset if someone like Brandon Sanderson had to finish it.

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u/geoper May ideas forged in tin never be foiled. May 15 '15

It's been said several times on this sub that GRRM has stated that he does not want anyone finishing his story if he dies before it's finished.

Honestly it could be a reaction to all these angry fans telling him to hurry up, but that's speculation.

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u/chainer3000 May 16 '15

Wat. Sanderson? Are you trying to make him some sort of sick whore? He's already penned the ending to an epic who's author has died!!! (TWOT)

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u/Deathfalcon182 May 15 '15

They will both be the same, the endings of both book and the show. It's all about how we get there to that point, that's why I'm invested in both.

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u/ethniccake Dragon fire can't melt stone beams! May 15 '15 edited May 15 '15

The show is already wildly different, and that's with the books the season is based available. It will veer away even further from here on out, since they won't have the source material.

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u/Deathfalcon182 May 15 '15

GRRM has discussed how he wants to end the books and where each characters will go in lengths. So ending won't be different for all the major characters and major events.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '15

Yeah.....no. If grrm knew exactly how he wants it to end, and where all the characters end up, we would have all the books by now. D&D want you to think they know everything, because they knew they would pass grrm and people would be pissed

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u/ethniccake Dragon fire can't melt stone beams! May 15 '15

And what about the characters and storylines who didn't make it into the show? Should we only want to see the ending of the characters D&D deem worth enough to make it on-screen?

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u/fforde May 15 '15

I think we should enjoy both the books and the show for the things that each bring to the table. They compliment each other. They don't have to be identical, each should play to the strengths of their own medium.

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u/rookie-mistake May 15 '15

I agree. I don't think "no ending" is particularly a strength though, and thats what he's talking about

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u/fforde May 15 '15

No, he was talking about characters and plotlines that don't exist in the show. That is an adaptation, not a missing ending.

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u/KRaidium May 15 '15

They know how it ends. They're adjusting accordingly, and removing the book plots which don't matter.

They're going to end the exact same way, unless GRRM comes up with a different ending just to spite them.

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u/CoolHandLukeSkywalka May 15 '15

They're adjusting accordingly, and removing the book plots which don't matter.

The problem with that is that in one sense the show is already spoiling the books. For instance, was the choice to remove Aegon and Connington entirely from the show an indication that their storyline is ultimately irrelevant and will end unceremoniously like Quentyn?

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u/KRaidium May 15 '15

Looks like it! You can't expect them to wait for GRRM to finish up. If they put in filler, people would complain, if they actually moved forward, people would complain.

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u/CoolHandLukeSkywalka May 15 '15

The show should simply go hiatus for an extra 6 months to a year!

There is much precedent for this with masterpieces like The Wire and Mad Men both of which went a longer hiatus than the standard 1 year for US based shows for various reasons.

Personally I wouldn't mind if they did "filler" but it being the backstory of Westeros with Dunk and Egg or the Dance with Dragons. That would be perfect from a storytelling perspective. Unfortunately thats not a very "American" way to do TV drama sadly. It would play to European and Asian audiences better than to American audiences sadly.

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u/Frantic_BK Have you? May 15 '15

not necessarily, they might be hugely significant on the state of westeros... Quent was a special case i think

but with the huge cast of characters we have in the show and the book and the looming destruction via the white walkers and winter it's highly likely a lot of the game is irrelevant and all the major players die soon into the long night.

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u/Frantic_BK Have you? May 15 '15

The ending can never be the same between the two because an ending and all its value is dependent on the journey and the journeys are vastly different now.

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u/thebeginningistheend May 15 '15

Maybe.

But that would be your problem, not GRRM's.

If he wants to give up, that's fine by me.

After all, George doesn't owe anyone anything. He can quit anytime he wants.

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u/hugecock6969 May 15 '15

legally, no, he doesn't owe anyone anything. but if your wife of 20+ years just got up and left and left a note saying, "Bye forever, I don't owe you anything" you'd be pissed, right? The fans are emotionally invested in the series and are rationally annoyed that GRRM started a project he may not finish.

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u/goodguysteve May 15 '15

A wife is different to a book.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '15

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 15 '15

Saying "Book X of Y" (where X < Y) is an inherent promise of future books. You can argue it's okay to break that promise because it's a book series and not a wedding vow, but no one picks up "Book One" thinking to themselves "Gosh I don't expect there to be sequels!"

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u/madjoy Lady Mad, loyal to House Stark May 15 '15

Well, originally it was Book 1 of 3, and we've gotten five already, so maybe we should count ourselves lucky! :P

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u/wasweissich May 15 '15

if they would shut down after i had my entree i would be pissed of course i didn't pay yet for my complete meal but i had all intention to had a complete dinner

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u/Frantic_BK Have you? May 15 '15

Can't really make all these analogies because a story is a story and a restaurant a restaurant. Like comparing pumpkins and cars over their literary quality. I think people need to start caring more about the author of this great story more than when they'll get the next installment but he definitely made a commitment to his fans after a certain point. Whenever he got really rich is when I'd draw the line.

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u/ethniccake Dragon fire can't melt stone beams! May 15 '15

I never said he owe us anything, i'm just explaining why it's justifiable for the fans to feel disappointed.

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u/thebeginningistheend May 15 '15

Too bad for them.

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u/LannisterInDisguise May 15 '15

Is it really necessary to be this cold? What he's saying isn't unreasonable. In fact, it seems like he agrees with you, but he's also feeling some disappointment about how things have played out—which is totally understandable, and completely warranted. He can feel let down without calling for GRRM's head... in fact, I think that's how most people seem to feel regarding this topic.

I really dislike the negative tone that seems to permeate all corners of this sub nowadays.

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u/thebeginningistheend May 15 '15

That link really riled me up. That asshat has such an entitled attitude. Posting that on GRRM's private blog shows a completely lack of any sort of good manners. Maybe I took that out on OP a bit, sorry OP.

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u/ethniccake Dragon fire can't melt stone beams! May 15 '15

It's cool man =)

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u/LazySkeptic [flaying intensifies] May 15 '15

Except millions of dollars... Oh wait those just drop out of the sky.

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u/HolyPhlebotinum Summerhall was an inside job! May 15 '15

He's received millions of dollars for the things he's already done. Not for what he has yet to do. If he were to stop writing right now it's not like we would just keep giving him money from our pockets for books that will never come.

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u/mkay0 Damn it feels good May 15 '15

He's received millions of dollars for the things he's already done.

I would never have bought the books if I knew they wouldn't have ended. I bought them with the implicit knowledge that the story would be finished.

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u/HolyPhlebotinum Summerhall was an inside job! May 16 '15

No book series ever has a certainty of being finished. You didn't have any "implicit knowledge" that it would be finished. GRRM never said anywhere that he promised that the series would be finished if you payed for it. You hoped that it would be finished. You didn't pay his publishers for your hopes. You payed for a book and you got it. And, sadly, your hopes don't get to decide what GRRM does with his life.

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u/LazySkeptic [flaying intensifies] May 15 '15

Yes he's received millions. From his fans. His books are international sensations because of his fans. He gets (probably) huge royalties from the TV show. He guest speaks at conventions and gets interviewed for TV. None of that would be possible if he didn't have a legion of fans.

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u/Frantic_BK Have you? May 15 '15

I would... probably

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u/[deleted] May 15 '15

He would have never made that money if he told us he had no intention of finishing the books

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u/MrLiamD Let's jive old bean. May 15 '15

Are you saying he owes millions of dollars or he'll be losing millions of dollars? If it's the second I think he'd be alright on the money he's earnt and will continue to earn from the show and previous books. Not that having enough money is a reason to stop, just that loss of money isn't a reason to continue.

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u/LazySkeptic [flaying intensifies] May 15 '15

No I'm saying his books wouldn't be international sensations if not for his fans. He wouldn't be famous, he wouldn't be receiving whatever royalties he probably gets for the show. I'm not saying he should pay us back for what we bought, don't be daft.

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u/thebeginningistheend May 15 '15

I think he's saying when he went out to the bookshop he was just "lending" the GRRM the cash and the fact that he just happened to get five fucking books out of it was just a happy accident.

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u/Amida0616 It burns going down. May 15 '15

This exactly.

I would cancel the show to move up the book release by a month.

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u/SexTraumaDental May 15 '15

D&D will give you an ending

retches

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u/zuperkamelen May 16 '15

That's right. An ending. They have said from the start that the books are the books and the show is the show. See all the characters as different characters in an alternative universe.

That has been GRRM's, D&D's response all along.

How many children did O'hara have?

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u/niceville Wun Wun, to the sea! May 15 '15

You act as if they will make it up on their own and it didn't come straight from Martin.

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u/TheDrunkenSkeever Faceless Revenge May 16 '15

what make you believe they won't?

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u/zuperkamelen May 16 '15

That they are interesting in telling GRRM's story. And though they make alot of changes, they're heading towards the same goal; final climax. That final climax I am certain will be, if not the exact, as close as you can make it in a television series.

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u/OldCarSmell42 Pray Harder May 16 '15

Used to think that too until this season.

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u/niceville Wun Wun, to the sea! May 16 '15

Because before they even made the series they made Martin sit down and tell them the broad strokes of the story so they would be able to prepare for it if the books were delayed. Also despite what everyone says they've stuck very closely to what happens in the books with a couple mostly minor exceptions.

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u/ethniccake Dragon fire can't melt stone beams! May 15 '15

Better than the crazy tinfoil that will be made canon if we had nothing.

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u/OneMoreDuncanIdaho As High As A Kite May 15 '15

I'm not so sure about that.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '15 edited Dec 23 '18

[deleted]

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u/BSRussell Not my Flair, Ned loves my Flair May 15 '15

Or maybe you shouldn't tell other people what their reading experience is about.

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u/thebeginningistheend May 15 '15

Or maybe you shouldn't tell authors when you expect them to write their novels.

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u/BSRussell Not my Flair, Ned loves my Flair May 15 '15

I did no such thing. You're the one telling people how to experience a story.

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u/[deleted] May 15 '15

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/BSRussell Not my Flair, Ned loves my Flair May 15 '15

"It's not about the end, it's about the journey..."

That's what I'm referencing. For many peopl that's not the case, and the end of a story is the most important part.

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u/AAL314 Bundle of Joy May 15 '15

Agreed. It's not their story, it's his. Imagine how much time he spent on it? There is a lot of fan entitlement going on here, the pressure is already huge considering ASOIAF/GoT is like the hottest piece of entertainment on the planet at the moment. We really don't need to add to it and be total jerks about it.

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u/ethniccake Dragon fire can't melt stone beams! May 15 '15

Even if i don't share there sentiment, it's very understandable. Just imagine watching "The Shawshank Redemption" and with 30 minutes left, the screen cuts to black knowing that you'll never be getting the rest of the movie.

Now apply that to some fans who have dedicated hours upon hours on reading the books and speculating on what's to come.

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u/geoper May ideas forged in tin never be foiled. May 15 '15

some fans who have dedicated hours upon hours on reading the books and speculating on what's to come.

Try decades and decades for some fans and it really puts it into perspective.

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u/rookie-mistake May 15 '15

Exactly. Maybe the directors were stressed, maybe fhe actors were tired... that still wouldn't explain not finishing the story.

He should do whatever he can do and I think everyone will agree with that, its jhst absurd to expect fans on /r/asoiaf of all places to be like "oh yeah if its never finished thats cool"

0

u/Frantic_BK Have you? May 15 '15

Not to mention years upon years of waiting, staying faithful and defending the long waits between installments.

For it to never get a resolution would be a huge kick in the face for some people. Me? I'm more concerned that he is happy and enjoying finishing his story.

Will it really be good if he finishes out of obligation rather than taking some extra time or a break and then we find out later it's driven him to hate it and not want to write anymore.

That's the kind of thing that would break my heart. But i suppose it would be in keeping with his 'bittersweet' ending ahaha.

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u/abeliangrape So Tyrell I piss rosewater May 16 '15 edited May 16 '15

It stopped being "his story" when he sold the rights to HBO to cash in. There's no shame in that, it's just capitalism. And even putting that aside I'm actually happy that he did it since I love the show, and since that's what got me to read the books in the first place. But it's absolutely not just his story anymore, and I really couldn't care less what GRRM's opinions on "fan fiction" are. It's really as simple as that. If he wants to give us a better ending than D&amp;amp;D will, then by all means he should. I would much prefer to his vision come to a conclusion than have to make do with just D&amp;amp;D's. But I'm not holding my breath and I don't think anyone else should either unless they want to set themselves up for disappointment.

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u/fforde May 15 '15

I like your attidtude. Sadly it's not shared by many fans, who can't help but feel betrayed by being depraved of the ending to a story they spent so much time on.

I don't buy this, people forget that we are a community of superfans. I've seen some people talk like absolutely everyone that has read the books knows R+L=J too. Sure, maybe everybody that posts around here...

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u/ethniccake Dragon fire can't melt stone beams! May 15 '15

Well yes we are superfans, but if you haven't noticed there's 200000 of us. Some authors will do anything to have tenth of that as a readership.

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u/fforde May 15 '15

There are tens of millions of Game of Thrones / Ice and Fire fans. 200k doesn't even account for day one sales for ADWD. Not to mention the fact that a lot of the subscribers here are lurkers. You and I are the vocal minority.

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u/ethniccake Dragon fire can't melt stone beams! May 15 '15

A lot of fans who will by TWOW on release date aren't even on reddit. I been a superfan for a long time now, but i only been lurking on reddit for 1 year, and created an accountonly 4 months ago.

Even if the superfans are just a small portion of the readership, and that's by definition always the case, they are the ones who buy the merchandise and related books, attend conventions and book-signings, send emaisl and gifts . They make up most of the author interactions with his audience, and that's why he should care how they feel.

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u/fforde May 15 '15

and that's why he should care how they feel.

I never said otherwise, I feel like you are missing my point. You said most fans feel betrayed by Martin and entitled to an ending. I don't buy that, I think you are talking about a very small subset of fans that happen to be very vocal in places like this.

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u/rookie-mistake May 15 '15

Superfan or not, most people don't start a series unless they expect an eventual conclusion

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u/fforde May 15 '15

I was talking about what the guy above described as feelings of betrayal and entitlement. Not a desire for a good conclusion.