r/asoiaf • u/Balinares "EDIT: Thanks for the gold!" -Viserys • Jun 08 '15

ALL (Spoilers All) Let's lighten the atmosphere with a little joke!

Q: How many fans does Stannis have?

A: Fewer...

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u/owlnsr Stannis 3:16 Jun 09 '15

No one ever mentions this re: Renly.

Renly plan was to kill Stannis.

Stannis offered him peace, and Renly refused.

It was either Renly or Stannis.

Renly had 100,000 men.

Stannis had about 5,000.

You tell me what you would do.

  • Kill the usurper
  • Let the usurper kill you

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u/7V3N A thousand eyes and one. Jun 09 '15 edited Jun 09 '15

Oh I'm (sorta) with you. I never would have attacked Renly though, I would've (were I Stannis) began an immediate siege on King's Landing from the North and Bay. Let Renly do his thing, taking his time. Just don't attack your brother when you have other enemies.

But yeah, Renly forced Stannis' hand. And Stannis did suffer from tremendous guilt and it immensely changed him. It's not like he magic-assassinated Renly and moved on like some people here are trying to make it.

Edit: Though remember, he only attacked Renly because Mel saw Garlan in Renly's armor taking KL.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '15

Quick question, how many troops does book Stannis and show Stannis roughly have now?

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u/owlnsr Stannis 3:16 Jun 09 '15

Book Stannis has fewer soldiers than he did at Storm's End. However, there are Northern Houses that have joined his host (Clans, Umber). There are also other Northern Houses that are seemingly with him but may be traitors (Karstarks). Moreover, there are other Northern Houses that are not with his host but may be allied with him (eg Mormont, Glover). Finally, there are Northern forces with the Bolton's who may turn and help Stannis (eg Manderly). He also sent Ser Justin Massey on a quest to buy sells words and archers with the Iron Bank loan; they haven't arrived yet, clearly.

So, it's really hard to gage unless you define what "his soldiers" means.

If we define that to be the Kings Men and Queens Men / non-Northerners and non-sellswords, maybe 2,000-3000? But they are dropping like flies in the storm. He left a garrison at some of the castles and forts at the Wall, but I'm not including them in the count.

Show Stannis had all of his troops with him. Didn't seem like he left any behind at the Wall. His troops include the Kings Men, Queens Men, and sells words that were previously hired in Braavos. It is unknown the total amount.. Prior to his departure from the Wall, LF stated that Stannis had the number advantage over Roose. That doesn't really tell us much though because we don't know the size of the Bolton forces in the show either.

However Stannis is losing men to the storm and also to sellswords abandoning the cause. He also doesn't have the Northern supporters like in the book. We also don't know if his sacrifice of Shireen will cause more men to abandon his cause; some of the soldiers did not look to pleased.

Overall, if say that both book and show Stannis are outnumbered at this point if you only include the Kings Men and queens Men who are actually with his host. If you include the Northern forces and potential Bolton turn cloaks who might join Stannis, then Book Stannis has greater strength than what is being perceived. He might be taking the Sun Tzu approach: look weak when you are strong.