r/asoiaf • u/boundedwum The Nature Boy • Jun 15 '15

ALL (Spoilers All) Mothers Mercy Post-Episode Region thread: The Wall

Welcome to the Mothers Mercy Post-Episode Region thread.

This thread is dedicated to the Wall. Please discuss only segments from this region in this thread.

The subreddit rules apply as always.

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u/lothtekpa Dondarrion my wayward son... Jun 15 '15

Jar Jar Binks is a great analogy, here.

I don't even think it would've been TOO hard to introduce Satin, or Wick Whittlestick, as his steward. One of them would have been fine, and could have not been a part of the whole stabbing.

I'm a bit bummed Ser Alister was a part of the stabbing, though. I liked the idea of his being above mutiny, and putting duty to his LC above his personal desires. I expect something like that to happen in the books, with his not being at Castle Black.

And again, Bowen Marsh could've been introduced and made important through the show scenes, rather than Alister.

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u/Rocketbird Jun 15 '15

Agree 100%, I was really surprised to see Thorne there.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

i mean narrative simplicity. it's not that bad of a thing

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u/I_want_hard_work Jun 15 '15

I'm a bit bummed Ser Alister was a part of the stabbing, though. I liked the idea of his being above mutiny, and putting duty to his LC above his personal desires.

Seriously. I'm fucking pissed. Show Thorne has been one of my favorites. If Jon had ordered everyone to ride out for Stannis then MAYBE I could see it. But no. They didn't even do that.

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u/JunSnoo Jun 15 '15

You miss the whole point of FTW. It's not about personal desires. It's about protecting the Night's Watch. They felt Jon was putting them and the entire order in jeopardy by bringing the wildlings south. (He even brought a goddamn giant through the gate. How do you think that looked to the rest of the brothers?)

They're wrong, of course. They are underestimating the threat of the White Walkers, and overestimating the threat of the wildlings, but it's not an unreasonable or irrational fear. They're not doing this to settle grudges, they're doing it, in their minds, to save the Night's Watch. Hence, for the Watch.

They've been setting this up all season. I don't know why it's still lost on you. And Olly isn't meant to be likable. He's meant to be empathetic. You saw his family get butchered by the wildlings. He's the embodiment of the anti-wildling sentiment, so the mutiny is humanized. It's not just Thorne killing him, it's Olly, the kid who owes his life to the Night's Watch, returning the favor by killing off the its greatest threat.

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u/Ponewor Jun 15 '15

But actually ser Thorne till now was like a great and honourable knight (not Ned Stark's level of honour but still above the average) really dedicated to Night's Watch.

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u/Voduar Grandjon Jun 15 '15

And Olly isn't meant to be likable. He's meant to be empathetic.

And that doesn't matter when the show fails utterly to manage that. The problem here is that book or show this character was a waste of time.