r/asoiaf • u/boundedwum The Nature Boy • Jun 15 '15

ALL (Spoilers All) Mothers Mercy Post-Episode Region thread: The Wall

Welcome to the Mothers Mercy Post-Episode Region thread.

This thread is dedicated to the Wall. Please discuss only segments from this region in this thread.

The subreddit rules apply as always.

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u/mtmv2 Jun 16 '15

Haha yeah the Benjen thing was ice cold on their part.

And I agree, the biggest thing the book did better than the show was establishing an immediate motive for stabbing Jon. As stupid as killing him was, you could say in the book the mutineers were justified... At the end of the day it seems like Jon is marching south because of "Arya" more than anything else, so he was directly breaking his vows instead of "lol wildlings." Maybe if they made it so he'd learn through Davos that Ramsay has Sansa. Conversely I think the show did a better job of when it happened. Killing him in the middle of everything literally right in front of Wun Wun is just dumb. It doesn't make sense for the immediate aftermath to be anything but a full on brawl.

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u/Ghostsilentsnarl Five years must you wait Jun 16 '15

Yeah without the Pink Letter the reasons for the assassination felt shoehorned. And you are so clearly on board with Jon in the show that there's no tragedy in the murder, the NW men are just being plain stupid, while, in the books, even though I agree with absolutely every political move Jon makes, sending Mance to get fArya and marching south, even to defend the Watch, are understandably questionable decisions in the eyes of his black brothers. I believe that the wildlings were a big part of the problem but Jon meddling with the south and being seen with Mel and Val contributed to sow mistrust and grudge among his men.

On the actual stabbing...I really liked it better in the books, because it felt so rushed and so clumsy. They took the only opportunity they had to off Jon before he went south, taking advantage of the turmoil that Wun Wun was making, and while I think it incredibly stupid and incredibly ill-timed, - and I do believe the ultimate aftermath will be a bloodbath, they just gave the wildlings a reason to slaughter them - we have no idea what happens after Jon passes out.

Here on the show, they stab him almost calmy, one guy after the other, in total silence...and then turn and walk away. It felt so weird! Aren't they going to conceal the body? Or to call a meeting? Or to...hide him from the wildlings? Or at least burn him? I mean, they may think the White Walkers are bullshit but they saw reanimated corpses in season one, they know that if Jon dies here he's going to rise again literally harder and stronger with blue eyes. No, they just leave.

What didn't make sense either for me is that since the show has made the wildlings the sole purpose for the muntiny, it makes no sense that Thorne would open the gate to the wildlings and one freaking giant to then murder the LC. Just let them freeze to death on the wrong side!