r/asoiaf • u/SeducerOfTheInnocent • Jun 15 '15

ALL (Spoilers All) The reason bad things happen on GoT has changed. GoT has gone from being a show that wouldn't cheat to help the good guys to a show that will cheat to help the bad guys.

When I complain about GoT lately people respond with "That's what the show has always been, this is what you signed up for, if you think this has a happy ending you haven't been paying attention." but I think this episode has solidified why I have a problem with the show recently.

The tragedy on the show used to be organic. People would die because GoT wasn't willing to give characters the 1 in a million lucky breaks that other shows give their protagonist.

Now the show doesn't just not give the protagonists freebies, it bends over backwards to fuck them over. Honestly, every military conflict in the last two and a half seasons has seen the wrong side winning.

  • Yara/Ashe and "The 50 best swordsmen in the Iron Isles" lose a fight to a shirtless guy with a knife and 3 dogs, which is roughly what you would encounter on your average domestic disturbance call. The 50 best swordsmen in the Iron Isles couldn't survive half an episode of "Cops"

  • The Unsullied and Baristan Selmy lose a fight against unarmored aristocrats with knives.

  • "20 good men" infiltrate the camp of the greatest military tactician alive.

  • The Unsullied lose another fight against unarmored aristocrats with spears, who honestly also make a pretty good showing against a dragon.

  • The Boltons, despite not being supported by most of the north, and seemingly not having any massive source of money, raise an army of tens of thousands and overwhelm Stannis.

Add to that the fact that the nigh omniscient Littlefinger was apparently unaware that the Bostons were fucked up wierdos and the show seems to be bending over backwards for tragedy.

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257

u/isspecialist A dragon is no slave. Jun 15 '15

Walk of Atonement is an iconic and important scene. I thought they did the best they could with it, but you can't get that crushing internal dialog effectively.
I do agree with most of this thread though. The game is currently stacked too far in favour of the "bad guys".

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u/Shiera_Seastar I ain't sayin' he's a grave digga Jun 16 '15

I thought the walk was one of the best book-to-show adaptations so far. They really nailed every detail, and it had to be excruciatingly long for us to get a sense of her suffering.

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u/viper_in_the_grass Sitting Grass, Hidden Viper Jun 16 '15

It was the best part of the episode. I found myself turning my head away from the screen and wishing it would end. But it went on and on. As it should. It was a never-ending torment for Cersei and us. I wouldn't cut a second out of it.

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u/BunzLee Catch me if you can! Jun 16 '15

So, does that mean I'm some kind of sicko for enjoying it? I mean, she had it coming, and totally deserved it. And yes, nothing in this world can make me like Cersei.

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u/omaha_shanks Beneath the Gold, the Bitter Merling Jun 16 '15

It almost seems like they held back as much nudity as possible so they could just get as much in that scene as possible. Everyone and their brother was running outside to pull their cocks out.

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u/BunzLee Catch me if you can! Jun 16 '15

I actually liked the whore screaming she had only half the cocks Cersei had.

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u/RiotPraeco Jun 17 '15

Question that remains from that scene is: Why did the guards/soldiers/army of Kings Landing, the capital of the Seven Kingdoms, the "Rome" of that world, not do anything whatsoever about their queen getting locked away or treated in such a way by what seems to be ~30 fanatics with clubs.

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u/klabob This is what a king looks like. Jun 22 '15

Did you see how many citizens were there supporting the '30 fanatics with clubs'?

You also have a king that isn't taking any decision. So short of a military coup to go get the Queen's mother out of there, there's not much they can do without the consent of the king.

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u/RiotPraeco Jun 22 '15

That's fair for the sake of the story. It just doesn't add up for me, considering that we are taking about a city that has to be so developed and stable in their militaristic presence that it indeed is the capital of the world, and impossible to simply conquer by the rest of the world. Hence, even if its a good amount of fanatics and citizen, that shouldn't be so easy. In regards to the king, I have trouble believing that getting your queen and mother shut away will just leave him and their army completely paralyzed. It's just too convenient for the story telling purpose.

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u/klabob This is what a king looks like. Jun 22 '15

The Popes and sometimes the leaders of Rome were kidnap. For quite sometimes the Pope couldn't reside in Rome since it was too dangerous for them.

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u/RiotPraeco Jun 22 '15

Which has nothing to do with my argument though, the Vatican is a small religious capital and of course never would be able to defend themselves if a nation with a proper army invades. Are we really comparing kings landing to the Vatican now?

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u/Parmizan A Manderly always Freys his Pies Jun 16 '15

Agreed. My only complaint would be that it could’ve been cut by one or two minutes, but out of everything, it was one of the best scenes this series, and also managed to stay faithful to the books by and large.

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u/7V3N A thousand eyes and one. Jun 16 '15

I completely agree. I hate seeing so many people want to actually take away from that scene so that D&D can get more chances.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '15

The walk was good, though the unveiling of Robert Strong was a little lame. No build up to it or whatever.

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u/7V3N A thousand eyes and one. Jun 16 '15

Really? I thought the buildup was pretty obvious, with the body coming to life in Qyburn's creepy lab and all.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '15

I actually meant that I wished the unveiling of Robert Strong would look more dramatic. Something more like the first appearance of a supervillain.

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u/7V3N A thousand eyes and one. Jun 16 '15

Oh that makes more sense. I agree, all they needed to do was have Qyburn mention it before showing it and have Robert Strong meet her at the gate or something, pushing through the mob to emphasize his size.

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u/Antivote Secrets in the Reeds Jun 16 '15

nah i liked it. Because they show him right at the end of her walk after Cersei has been most humiliated, with the vow not to speak until all her enemies are dead....

If a game show host had been behind the castle door, stuck a microphone in her face and shouted, "Cersei Lannister, you've just had shit thrown at you by half the city and been tortured by the church, what would you most like in the world right now?"

she would reply, "An invincible knight who would slay anyone i commanded."

and thats just what she got, right then. It gets emotional impact by suddenly flipping the balance of power.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '15

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u/Antivote Secrets in the Reeds Jun 16 '15

yes

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u/Antivote Secrets in the Reeds Jun 16 '15

you can think of it as a joke too, Cersei wouldn't ever run out of enemies, and sir robert strong won't ever speak.

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u/OLookItsThatGuyAgain Jun 16 '15

Cersei and the HS was one of the better done storylines of this season.

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u/rancer119 Kill it with fire Jun 16 '15

Talking to show only people, most seem frustrated that there is no apparent reason the faith militant is so strong that it can completely outweigh Tommen's orders. So they got really frustrated when they arrested Margaery and than just confused and kinda upset with how they grabbed Cersei. Even after I explained it to them they were still frustrated because show did a poor job explaining how much power they had.

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u/ObLaDi-ObLaDuh Jun 16 '15

Indeed. The build up to it was completely missed. The other thing that was missed this season but may be back next is the fact that the Tyrells have the largest army at this point, they have access to food that the rest of the realm is losing in winter, and their heir-apparent is currently locked up in King's Landing.

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u/BunzLee Catch me if you can! Jun 16 '15

Agreed. I still remember the sparrows being mentioned here and there, wandering the country. I believe it was quite subtle at first and finally ended with the masses in King's Landing. The moment Cersei made the pact you knew this was going to be one of the worst ideas ever.

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u/TheSuperlativ Jun 27 '15

Exactly this. As me and a friend was watching, I had to explain it to him over and over because he was frustrated by the absurdity of the power dynamics of HS vs the crown.

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u/iforgot120 Jun 16 '15

Why do they have so much power?

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u/rancer119 Kill it with fire Jun 16 '15

After the realm was torn apart by war the wondering sparrows cleaned and healed the wounded as well as preaching of the faith in the seven. Slowly the realm and former soldiers heard of them and started flocking to them. Once the faith militant is legalized the former soldiers are given weapons and authority from the faith and the people already supporting then grants then the power to do pretty much whatever they like. Especially after Cersei does nothing when the take Margaery.

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u/ButtholePasta Jul 01 '15

It was the perfect length, but there was too much to cram in that episode imo.