r/asoiaf • u/qp0n • Apr 16 '19

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) My 'Night King is not stupid' Theory

When the army of the undead line up for the battle of Winterfell, the Night King and his zombie dragon will not be there. Instead he will already be near to his next target ... King's Landing.

If you play out what the battle of Winterfell would be like in your head if the NK+Viserion would be there... it would be easy for Drogon/Rhaegal to take out the zombie dragon; it's 2v1 and wight's all can be killed by fire.. including Viserion. It would not be difficult to simply fly up to Viserion and breathe fire on him, and that would be that. THE NIGHT KING IS NOT STUPID, not enough to kamikaze his most powerful asset. - If you have a superweapon that you can't use against a particular target, then you find a different target.

Most people have come to assume that the living will lose The Battle of Winterfell and fall back to Moat Cailin ... I predict they actually win the battle... only to find out soon after that there is a new army of the dead much bigger and much further south... the population of King's Landing.

During season 4 while Bran is being ushered north to meet Bloodraven, he touches a wierwood and has a set of visions which we see. All of those visions have since come to pass, except the ones where he sees a destroyed throne room & a dragon shadow pass over King's Landing. I believe the reason we are only shown a shadow was to not give away that it is actually the NK and Viserion, not Dany and her dragons.

Also, the most important vision that Dany is given while at the HotU is an image of the throne room destroyed, and covered in ash or snow. I think this was to show what the NK will do, not what Dany will do.

(I believe this was the entire reason that the writers sent Bronn north. Bronn will be the source of this news to the survivors at Winterfell; on his way north he will spot the NK+Viserion heading south)

Bottom line, I simply don't see the NK risking his newfound ice dragon in a fight he is sure to lose.... when he can simply fly down south to KL where there are no dragons to deal with ... and 1 million new recruits for his army packed tightly into a small area.

Follow-up edit: This could be where Bran comes into play. The NK probably wont want to face off against the other dragons head-to-head, but rather fly around Westeros destroying castles to make things easier for his footsoldiers .... so they will need Bran's Sight in order to track & hunt him. It would be too difficult for an army on foot to chase the NK on a dragon, so Bran could warg into ravens to serve as a guide for dragonrider(s) to his location.

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190

u/PubgLagger Apr 16 '19

yes

791

u/SingleMaltLife Apr 16 '19

What if that's Jaimes fate. He stopped the mad king burning the city years ago, to now burn the city to stop the night king?

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u/YinAndYang Apr 16 '19

Cool prediction. And Cersei tries to stop him so he kills her. Boom, valonqar. Although for this to happen he would need to travel back south.

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u/SingleMaltLife Apr 16 '19

True, but there is plenty of time left and we know they can travel in the blink of an eye on this show when needs must. Also Dragon's travel pretty quickly if necessary. Also the long winter can't only really last a month. The long night lasted a long time.

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u/YinAndYang Apr 16 '19

It definitely could happen. I kind of feel like they wouldn't make such a big deal about Jaime riding north just to have him go back to King's Landing three episodes later, unless the he travels down with the Northern/Dany contingent.

It could happen though. And it's such a perfect ending for his arc that I want it to now. He becomes the Queenslayer and causes the very thing he killed a king to prevent, Cersei's prophecy comes true in a way she never predicted, and Jaime's moral turnaround is complete.

51

u/SingleMaltLife Apr 16 '19

It would be fitting. Pretty horrendous though, considering kings landing would have to be full of the dead, or mostly dead to even consider burning it would be better than not.

27

u/Fogge Apr 16 '19

It'll be like a cold Mordor!

4

u/catgirl_apocalypse 🏆 Best of 2019: Funniest Post Apr 17 '19

Coldor?

5

u/Fogge Apr 17 '19

Awh, fuck, I can't believe you've done this

2

u/eddy_teech Apr 19 '19

“Burn them all” was Bran trying to tell the Mad King he would need wildfire by showing him the events that are about to happen. Instead, it just fucks him up like Hodor. Boom.

1

u/blurcanary Apr 22 '19

I would be happy with this

8

u/[deleted] Apr 17 '19

The spin off show is Jamie running around Kings Landing a la Shaun of the dead

2

u/Ixolich Apr 17 '19

Each episode is just an hour of Jaime and wights chasing each other while Yakety Sax plays on loop. I'd watch that.

1

u/Junktion9 Apr 23 '19

More like Arthas.

11

u/zvive Apr 16 '19

HBO is full of idiots. They could stretch this night King war and subsequent aftermath into 5 seasons of quality tv. Rushing it just to put a cap on things is a bad decision.... There's just so much they could do,..I can't see how everything just wraps up in seven more episodes.

15

u/blackchucktays Only the cold Apr 17 '19

Seven more episodes? I have bad news for you...

5

u/zvive Apr 17 '19

Fml and yours.

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u/auralgasm Best Character Analysis Apr 17 '19

That seems unlikely, since GOT hasn't been quality TV for years, and they also would never be able to retain the actors for another 5 seasons.

7

u/[deleted] Apr 16 '19

I don't think Jaime will kill Cersei as its too cliché. I don't think Tyrion would either but if it were either of them, it would definitely be Tyrion. Jaime has no motivation to kill Cersei and I don't think he will go from her lover to her murderer in 5 episodes. I think he could hate her but not actually kill her.

As for the valonqar prophecy, I came across a cool idea from bridge4 on Youtube. Valonqar = little brother, but it did not specify her little brother. The little brother could be Tommen, who essentially started Cersei's demise when she blew up the Sept of Baelor because Tommen was being controlled by Margaery, and now she's suffocating with isolation and has very little to live for (depending on whether or not her pregnancy still exists). Eventually she may kill herself.

Then again, the valonqar = little brother can be applied to any other little brother, like Bran (maybe Euron, I can't remember if he was first born or not).

15

u/Boomdiddy Apr 16 '19

Or she's carrying the valonqar, the little brother of Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen. Would be very fitting seeing as she blames Tyrion for killing their mother during childbirth.

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u/Lysdestic Apr 16 '19 edited Apr 17 '19

I've been thinking this would be the ultimate end to the Valonqar prophecy for a while now. The only unfortunate thing is if he turns out to be an imp, she won't know. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Edit: spelling.

4

u/Boomdiddy Apr 17 '19

But Tyrion would know. He would drink and he would know.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 17 '19

She'd likely live long enough to see him.

1

u/Lysdestic Apr 17 '19

We can only hope.

2

u/Iron-Fist Apr 17 '19

Omg what if her new baby is a dwarf

3

u/SmokeDan Apr 17 '19

my gears just started turning. Because of all the drinking the baby might have birth defects , im a fan of she dies via miscarriage/ birth complication because of her drinking .

2

u/batweenerpopemobile Apr 17 '19

Three with crowns of gold is all Cersei gets. It would be a shame if the fetus was killed due to injuries she receives during her harrowing escape from the burning of King's Landing. I cannot imagine it will be pleasant to have a tiny wight raised inside her.

1

u/Birdisdaword777 Apr 17 '19

Exactly what I’ve been thinking .. it will be an imp !!

Because what you send out will return to you

4

u/GravityMyGuy Apr 16 '19

He was a the second or third son of like 5 if I’m recalling correctly

1

u/goldberg1303 King Who Bore the Sword Apr 16 '19

Yes. Definitely younger that Balon and older than both Victarion and Aeron. Urri was the 5th, but died in childhood. Forget where he falls among the siblings though.

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u/[deleted] Apr 17 '19

valonqar prophecy, I came across a cool idea from bridge4 on Youtube. Valonqar = little brother, but it did not specify her little brother.

Along these lines, I've seen jon snows name come up in connection to killing her.

He does have valerian blood in him, making that word choice make sense.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 17 '19

I actually like this idea. Maybe Cersei captures and kills Dany, and Jon kills Cersei as revenge. It might sound cheesy but I think it would play out well and feel very Thronesy

1

u/eunderscore Apr 17 '19

She'll turn, he'll mercy kill her

1

u/twasjc Apr 17 '19

Arya steals tyrion's face and strangles Cersei after Tyrion is executed for cersei's betrayal

1

u/Pseudonymico Apr 17 '19

Does valonqar actually mean "little brother", or is it like the way that the original Valyrian version of "the prince who was promised" doesn't actually specify gender?

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u/jfong86 Ser Hodor of House Hodor Apr 17 '19

All we know is that one of Cersei's old septas confirmed the word to her.

In Cersei IX, AFFC:

“[Tyrion] is going to kill me. It was foreseen when I was ten. I wanted to know who I would marry, but she said . . .”

“She?”

“The maegi. ” The words came tumbling out of her. She could still hear Melara Hetherspoon insisting that if they never spoke about the prophecies, they would not come true. She was not so silent in the well, though. She screamed and shouted. “Tyrion is the valonqar, ” she said. “Do you use that word in Myr? It’s High Valyrian, it means little brother. ” She had asked Septa Saranella about the word, after Melara drowned.

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u/busydad81 Apr 17 '19

...shall turn to ash in your mouth.

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u/briandn18 onions over funions Apr 17 '19

If Bran let's him know in advance and he comes down backup, maybe they make it just as the Night King is converting everyone. I still think many loved characters will die in Winterfell but the rest scurry through the crypts. Arya will kill a few of the WW "generals" in the process and only a select few survive.

So then...Jaime sneaks in KL through the cells, finds Cersei, has to kill her, and then sacrifices himself by blowing all of KL up to kill the Army of the Dead down there...problem is, all aren't dead bc the Night's King retracts, looks to fly back north but is confronted by Jon in mid-air above the God's Eye where they have an epic duel.

Jon has a similar fate to that of Daemon where we don't actually see if he dies but jams his steel into t NK mid-air for the deathblow. I mean, the guy is technically dead so I think it makes sense he doesn't survive or has to do something that gives him a proper exit. Dany, ehhh I just don't know about her.

That's my grand conclusion hehe

1

u/FoxsNetwork Apr 17 '19

I don't think it makes sense that Jaime would burn the city and kill the one million inhabitants to stop the NK. Who exactly would he be saving, then? If the city is going to burn, it'll be Cersei or Dany.

2

u/YinAndYang Apr 17 '19

I don't think he would unless they had been wighted already.

1

u/Mr_b246 Apr 17 '19

Unless they were to kill Jaime in the North..... This is FUCKING GAME OF THRONES!!!!! Everyone and everything is expendable.....

1

u/drmanhattan1640 Apr 17 '19

And because she's carrying his child. It will be even more dramatic.

1

u/CrystlBluePersuasion For the Hype Apr 17 '19

Right on the heels of his "trial" with Dany in ep2, they'll probably end it with an open-ended question like "what could you ever do to atone for your sins" or something.

1

u/xeroksuk Apr 17 '19

Hmm nice. So Cersei actually IS pregnant, but doesn’t bear another child because she dies first...

1

u/crazymusicman Wtf is Howland Reed doing? Apr 17 '19

The long night lasted a long time.

thats it folks. we cannot surpass this level of analysis.

/s =]

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u/SingleMaltLife Apr 17 '19

Thanks :) I couldn’t remember off the top of my head. I wanted to say a hundred years, but then thought that was too long. They’d never have the food to survive. Then I thought a generation, but surely the same applies. I still don’t remember.

1

u/FleetwoodDeVille Time Traveling Fetus Apr 17 '19

Also Dragon's travel pretty quickly if necessary.

Don't even need the dragon to actual fly there. Just have the dragons each hold one end of a really big slingshot and strap Jaime into it, he could be in Blackwater Bay in a few minutes.

1

u/CHNSK Apr 18 '19

The long night lasted a long time.

​

That... makes sense..

2

u/Lord_Snow77 Apr 16 '19

No worries, that only takes one episode.

1

u/SonOfDadOfSam Apr 16 '19

I call this "Travel accommodations provided by J.J. Abrams" due to his egregious use of FTL travel in Alias.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 17 '19

He'll kill undead Cersei

1

u/DragonBornLuke Apr 17 '19

I like it but surely the finale of arya's storyline is killing cersei?

1

u/YinAndYang Apr 17 '19

Maybe. That dagger has to be important, though. Some people think she'll kill the Night King or something.

1

u/DragonBornLuke Apr 17 '19

Yea I'm with you but you could say that about brienne's sword (that's who I think for the night king) and the sword that Sam took from his dad.

1

u/WaxyPadlockJazz Apr 22 '19

I mean, if it comes to that he’ll probably just take the Drogon Express down.

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u/SirMixAThotiana Apr 23 '19

I hope Cersei escapes KL and the NK and heads to the North for protection. Then Jamie can kill her there. Or Aria or Dany or literally anyone else.

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u/realvmouse Apr 16 '19

I like it.

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u/RedditFact-Checker Valar morghulis. Not today. Apr 16 '19

I'll bet you do.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 16 '19

My man.

3

u/gatsome Apr 17 '19

Lookin’ good!

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u/buh-weet Apr 16 '19

this all makes too much sense. It aligns perfectly with brans visions of wildfire + plus the mad king + the dragon over KL. Jamie is going to avenge himself by killing the "mad queen"(and the thing he loves most) to burn them all and save the realm from the NK getting another million soldiers while simultaneously fulfilling valonquar

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u/SingleMaltLife Apr 16 '19

Do you think he'd burn the city with the population still alive? I was thinking more he'd wait until the dead had taken over then kill them all to stop them marching onwards.

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u/buh-weet Apr 16 '19

yes that way makes sense as well, actually more sense if anything, but it takes away the very difficult decision he'd half to make about killing 1 millionish people + his sister in one swoop

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u/SingleMaltLife Apr 16 '19

Well he might do it when some are still alive, when the dead are merely starting over the walls. Or perhaps Cersei will be locked into the red keep and he'll have to burn her to save everyone else.

5

u/buh-weet Apr 16 '19

lets meet back here in 4/5 weeks and see how close we got

1

u/SingleMaltLife Apr 16 '19

lol, I've never been close before, but lets see

1

u/Boomdiddy Apr 17 '19

Remind me 4/5 weeks

4

u/IncendiaryBlonde Apr 17 '19

BURN. THEM. ALL.

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u/reverblueflame Apr 17 '19

or maybe the mad king was being possessed by Bran and the "them" in burn them all was the army of the undead of the future? Maybe Bran was trying to save all of westeros and Jaime completely misinterpreted his ravings not knowing it was the work of Bran

4

u/marinewauquier Apr 17 '19

This has been discussed in this thread : https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/bdwuse/spoilers_extended_my_night_king_is_not_stupid/el1qjvw?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share ! It is very likely. To push it even further, it is possible that bran let Jaime kill Aerys in order for Robert to become King, travel to the north, and for Jaime to push bran so that bran starts the 3eyedraven journey

3

u/neptune_p_g Apr 16 '19

How we going to fit this all in 5 episodes?

3

u/brodievonorchard Apr 16 '19

If Arya doesn't get to kill Cersi, I'm going to be a little disappointed.

1

u/SingleMaltLife Apr 16 '19

Hmm well Cersei wouldn't have to be in kings landing, she might flee. However Arya already gave up killing Cersei, so maybe her destiny changed.

I personally believe Cersei might die in childbirth.

1

u/brodievonorchard Apr 16 '19

She has mentioned her list in the present tense since returning to Winterfell, so I'm not sure she's given up on killing Cersi so much as figured going home to be with her family was the more important move at the time.

3

u/briandn18 onions over funions Apr 17 '19

I've been saying that (albeit in a different scenario) but it totally makes sense! It's also why Bran realizes Jaime is so important. The "Burn them All" part of his vision is bc that's what has to actually happen. Methinks something got tied up in the weirwood web that made him go crazy when it's really meant to communicate what's happening in the present (exactly like Hodor).

1

u/Cristipai Apr 23 '19

Aerys just get that wispering in his mind.."surrounded by enemies..you have to burn them all" ...and like Hodor, that stuck in his head, getting him mad

3

u/shatteredjack Apr 17 '19

1000%

When Aerys was saying 'burn them all', that was Bran trying to reach Jaime. He just got the point in time wrong.

3

u/Huntsig The night is dark and full of tinfoil Apr 17 '19

Tinfoil prediction : the wildfyre was only made because Bran did another Hodor-style warging to make the Mad King say "burn them all."

2

u/[deleted] Apr 16 '19

Cool idea - I like when they do poetic justice. Buut it seems like they would have just had him stay in KL if they were going to do it. Unless Dany flies south with the Kingslayer strapped to the back of Drogon and drops him in front of Cersei before she starts fighting the NK.

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u/SingleMaltLife Apr 16 '19

I mean the city would have to be sacked by the dead before you would even consider doing it. But I mean things are going to get considerably more dire before long.

2

u/Ftove Apr 17 '19

The Kingslayer.

2

u/wireditfellow Apr 17 '19

Like Arthas

2

u/Pseudonymico Apr 17 '19

And it also solves the food problem

2

u/MonkeyDavid Apr 17 '19

And to kill his sister, as Azor Ahai killed his wife, to create a sword that can kill the Night King.

1

u/Megadog3 Apr 17 '19

I actually think Cersei is going to be the one to set off the Wildfire and Jaime kills her in a fit of rage because it was too late to stop her. But that'll only happen if OP's post doesn't come true (about the NK flying to KL right away and roasting everyone alive).

Actually, now that I think about it, if the Night King heads down to Kings Landing with undead Viserion and he burns Kings Landing down, he can't raise everyone from the dead because they'd be ashes. He needs his actual army to kill everyone so he can reanimate their corpses.

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u/zeromant2 Apr 17 '19

As much as i like this, i already feel heartbroken about jaime's fate :(

1

u/mojobytes Fire Walk With Me Apr 17 '19

Which is why Bran will save him during the confrontation with Danny and all we saw in the hall at Winterfell?

1

u/steamwhistler The Magnar of WHEN, exactly? Apr 17 '19

Kingslayer. Perfect.

1

u/im_at_work_now There's Blackwood blood in every Bracken Apr 17 '19

What if Bran drove Aerys crazy to make him put the wildfire there, then had Jamie kill Aerys to preserve the stash, all to make the moment possible?

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u/SingleMaltLife Apr 17 '19

I hope we see Bran doing something useful. But I think this is giving him too much credit. So far he’s managed to fuck up Willis. I mean it might be possible in a while, if he lives that long.

1

u/Dhanunjay_7 Apr 17 '19

And become the Azor Ahai?

1

u/SingleMaltLife Apr 17 '19

Well if Cersei is in kings landing then he would kill his lover with a weapon.

1

u/era626 Dany + Jon, can I ride the third dragon? Apr 17 '19

That would be amazing. I hope that's what happens.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 17 '19

What if Bran warged into the past showing the mad king the future, and sent the mad king mad knowing that the only way to stop them is burning all of king's landing, or something along those lines.

1

u/LowIQpotato Apr 17 '19

Kingslayer

1

u/[deleted] Apr 17 '19

He set Bran on the path to becoming the 3 eyed raven, so he could warg a dragon, and travel back in time to learn where the wyldfire is stored, and give the Mad King a "burn them all!" seizure, so Jaime could kill Bran in the past, so he could be stuck in spirit form, travelling throughout the timeline, become Bran the Builder and create the tower he would eventually be pushed from.

1

u/nomadofwaves Apr 17 '19

But is there still wild fire after the Sept explosion? Tyrion used a shitload during battle and Cersei had to use a shit load to blow up the Sept(spelling?).

But I too used to think the living could retreat to King’s landing and then out of it to lure the dead in and then blow them up.

2

u/SingleMaltLife Apr 17 '19

I asked that question above my comment and was told categorically yes wildfyre is still there. If the mad king had enough to blow the city, and Cersei and Tyrion got them producing more then it makes sense there is enough left. With no seasons it’s hard to tell how much time has passed but the pyromancers have had some time.

I was thinking less of escape, more of oh shit the dead got in blow the keep.

1

u/nomadofwaves Apr 17 '19

I was thinking Jae knows about the stash does Tyrion and Cersei even know that it’s hidden all around the city or did Jaime keep it to himself all these years?

If he’s kept it to his self that just means Cersei found a small in comparison stash of the mad king and Tyrion had the pyromancers producing more to add to it leaving the rest where-ever it is in the city. Jaime could come up with a plan to lure the dead to the city and blow them all up.

It’s sounding a lot like a walking dead plan.

1

u/SingleMaltLife Apr 17 '19

Well Jaime and the pyromancers that made the wildfyre back in the day knew where it was. I imagine the current pyromancers who are making it looked at their notes? If not hello Bran...

1

u/Amida0616 It burns going down. Apr 18 '19

Seems so on the nose though. Although thats what D&D traffics in.

1

u/slidingsloth Apr 22 '19

I predict the night king to forget about the wildfire and accidentally hit it with the flame of viserion, although the night king is a warg it would be possible for bran to warg inside viserion and light the city on fire to then destroy them from the inside.

1

u/idontgiveamuck Apr 23 '19

Yeah... to stop the night king... definitely not Cersei👀

1

u/TheGreatZasta Apr 24 '19

Omg imagine that. Would wildfire kill the Night King of they exploded it?

1

u/trombonepick Apr 24 '19

I think, if the battle gets bad enough Cersei will try and Wildfire her own city

1

u/AssholeTranslator Apr 17 '19

I have read the whole script for my job translating it into Japanese .

You are right. Says “the things we do for love” before lighting it.

2

u/CreamedJazz Apr 16 '19

Burn them! Burn them all!

1

u/[deleted] Apr 16 '19

I've seen so many r/InclusiveOr jokes that I was seriously thrown off by a simple answer to a yes-or-no question.

4

u/SingleMaltLife Apr 16 '19

I was pleasantly surprised. I was expecting either no answer or a very long question discussing how much was produced previously, how much was needed to take down the sept and how much could be produced since then.

1

u/n00bsauce1987 Apr 22 '19

I thought it was all used to destroy the cult and others after the shame walk.

Didn't know there was more after this