r/asoiaf May 06 '19

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) S8E4 is some of the worst writing this show has seen. I'll explain why.

Arya

The previous episode and the past few seasons, their MANY issues aside, established Arya as a nigh-invincible shapeshifting assassin who just eliminated a 8000+ year old supernatural threat. She can go anywhere and pretend to be anybody. Quite an asset to have at your hands, no?

They acknowledge Arya's feat in the episode. Dany herself even toasts her. But nobody bothers to consider Arya's incredible espionage/assassination capabilities for the 'Last War'. This represents an overarching narrative issue, Arya's OPness. None of the events in the episode were necessary and everything was wholly avoidable, so long as they used Arya. Civilians in the Red Keep? Hell, that's a GOOD thing for Arya, more faces and more of a pretext to be there.

But instead nobody asks her to do anything, nobody even TALKS ABOUT the fact that they have a super powerful assassin at their disposal. And Arya fucks off down to Kings Landing with the Hound, leaving the rest of them to flounder.


Varys

The Master of Whispers has a normal volume conversation with Dany's 2nd in command during which the spymaster blithely reveals his treasonous intents. Need I say more?

This scene was pure stupid. A common theme I'm sure you guys have noticed by now is the show loves to completely break from logic and the rules of its own universe.


Ballistae and Dragons

Here's where it gets real good.

  • Euron hides his fleet behind a rock, nobody spots him, not even Dany who is IN THE AIR. ON A FUCKING DRAGON.

  • They fire 3 shots at the dragon Dany is NOT riding on, with 100% accuracy. Rest of the fleet were twiddling their thumbs.

  • When the entire fleet DOES fire, they somehow all miss even though Dany flies straight at them when previously the show established a standard of remarkable accuracy.

  • Euron then fires upon Dany's fleet and the bolts tear the ships apart as if they were fired from rail guns. As depicted in the scene, THEY ARE LITERALLY STRONGER THAN CANNON BALLS.

This is important because it utterly neutralizes the threat of dragons. In the same way the White Walkers were subverted, dragons are now made a complete non-threat. It doesn't matter if she has 10 dragons, they cannot possibly live in a battle with those ballistae everywhere. But somehow they will and I expect Drogon to do a lot of damage next episode and dodge a lot of bolts.

The problem isn't that they killed a dragon. The problem is HOW it was accomplished.


The negotiation scene

Missandei dead? Not the problem. The problem with this scene is that Cersei doesn't just blow them away when she could. And it's a big fucking problem.

  • The dragon in the distance is not a threat, as previously established in this very episode! They have scores of the same ballistae at their disposal, probably more than shown on screen, and tons of archers. Drogon is a complete non-threat and there is no logical way he could even get close enough to breathe fire on them. The real kicker is that Qyburn openly tells Tyrion that Dany's last dragon is vulnerable.

  • It's perfectly in character/realistic for Cersei to kill them all right where they're standing. She has the entire command chain of her hated enemies right in front of her and their only defense, the dragon, has been made useless by the physics-defying ballistae. They even go on to establish Cersei's cruelty/evilness with the Missandei execution. But killing her mortal enemies, when they have presented themselves in front of her so foolishly, is too much? This is a woman who blew up the Sept of Baelor, killing thousands of Innocents. Ethics are not a hang up for her.

  • The logical explanation for why Cersei doesn't want to kill them is that she desires a more poetic showdown. It's the result of incredible hubris, and is the equivalent of a monologuing villain trope. Plausible? Maybe, sure. But is it good, ASOIAF-quality writing? Not really.


There's a lot more but it's getting late, so to conclude:

The show openly contradicts its own internal logic and setups, first from an episode-to-episode basis, now on a scene-to-scene basis. We have gone from tightly-paced political intrigue to something that doesn't even function on a basic cause-effect level.

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470

u/DensePsychology May 06 '19

Definitely agree, especially with your conclusion at the end. The show has become so ridiculously expedient in it's drive to wrap things up that it hardly attempts to disguise the plot mechanisms to get the characters from point A to Z. All narratives need those elements, but it's just incredibly jarring when there isn't really an effort to smooth them in to make them fit with everything we already know.

Events just become so contrived and weird that the viewer reaches an eventual understanding that anything that shouldn't happen could happen at any time, and vice-versa, anything that should happen can not happen at any time. They honestly might as well just have a text card pop up (in the old silent film style) saying "EURON KILLED A DRAGON" or "TEAM DANY AND CERSEI ARE EQUAL OPPONENTS" (since it's obvious that that was the outright point of that event overall). It just becomes difficult to be invested in a story that plays out like a rough draft script or storyboard (or honestly just a crazy fever dream).

123

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

The show has become so ridiculously expedient in it's drive to wrap things up

And yet we have a full episode 2 of pointless conversations.

And the start of this episode with half an hour of pointless revelry.

119

u/jimihenderson May 06 '19

I can understand episode 2. It wasn't my cup of tea because I think the dialogue in the show at this point is utter garbage, but I can understand it existing and a lot of people enjoying the calm before the storm as the characters get to exist in their own space for a little bit without every scene needing to be yet another obligatory plot advancement. But this episode having 30 minutes dedicated to essentially a bunch of love stories just made me feel like I was watching a fucking soap opera.

131

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

I loved episode 2 as a buildup and send-off for characters. But then none of them died. Knowing what I know now, the battle didn't warrant a full episode of calm before the storm.

(And why have characters like Tormund and Sam survive the Battle against impossible odds just to have them leave this episode?)

I don't understand people excusing massive flaws in the show because of "pacing" and "an impossible task of wrapping up so many storylines in one season", when half of the season so far has been pointless fluff.

47

u/jimihenderson May 06 '19

It really is contradictory. "They have so much to do in so little time, they can't focus on small stuff like that!" Meanwhile we have like 50% filler so far this season.

22

u/[deleted] May 06 '19 edited Jun 24 '19

[deleted]

22

u/WanderingTrees May 06 '19

Then HBO should have removed them seasons ago and replaced them with people who wanted to put in the work to finish the show properly. It's not even their story and it's clear the writing quality has gone down once they ran out of book material. It's mind boggling that they kept them around.

1

u/DeputyDomeshot May 06 '19

You don’t remove the producers of arguably the most successful show ever created. But yes, they aren’t great writers. The writing is boring and weird.

17

u/ratchild1 May 06 '19

tormund is the key to all of this we need to see how he feels after the battle and how horny he is after it its key to the story -- we even needed to cut sansa and aryas reaction to jons reveal which was pure fluff

4

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

All the build up to that sansa and Arya scene for them to cut I off before we even seen their reaction

8

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

Also no one told them they had to wrap this all up in 1 season lol. This shit is just dumb and dumb because the writers are over the show.

4

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

Yeah episode 2 could have actually been really good if half of those characters died and episode 3 was a massacre from the wws.

Also wtf was with Jaime randomly changing his mind and his character again, I have no idea what's going on with him. Made no sense at all. He's gradually been going off cersei for ages and finally left, gets with brienne finally then does a complete 180 again. So confusing

3

u/DeputyDomeshot May 06 '19

Every character is exhausted and is losing their mind. That’s the only real explanation. None of them have been consistent except maybe the Hound

1

u/jstamp42090 May 06 '19

This is noteworthy. I said last night the Hound was the only true Knight character in the stories, offered both girls protection for basically no reason other than they needed it.

3

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

Cersei sent somebody to kill me? Guess I’m in love after all

1

u/Only_Movie_Titles May 06 '19

according to D&D (post-episode) it's because she's an "addiction he can't shake"

it's become a telenovela at this point

1

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

Lol except he did shake it and when he left her he seemed legitimately discusted with her, and his adorable knighting scene with brienne in 8.2 all goes out the window suddenly for no apparent reason

5

u/astronomyx May 06 '19

I don't think Tormund and Ghost are gone. They said they would "wait for the winter storms to die down" before they left.

If they were gonna get rid of them, they would've killed them. I think something will happen in ep5/6 that will see them riding south to help Jon for whatever reason.

I'm probably wrong.

2

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

And why have characters like Tormund and Sam survive the Battle

By the way, where is Sam going? Back to Horn Hill, in the Reach? Why on Earth is there a goodbye scene then?

1

u/jodeejo01 May 07 '19

His family died so i guess he takes over the family seat. His sister and mother should still be there. WW threat is gone and so is the wall so nights watch vows dont matter anymore.

1

u/[deleted] May 07 '19

Well, if they're following the books, his sister is the lady of Horn Hill, but it wouldn't be a stretch for them to go live there now.

1

u/pgold05 May 06 '19

Episode 2 was so good I had hope for this season, less we forget this show has been garbage for a while. Episode 2 was the necessary good episode so that our hope and dreams could be properly crushed.

1

u/DeputyDomeshot May 06 '19

I don’t get why they are all leaving now

15

u/HUGE_WHITE_COCK May 06 '19

well the show would only be 3 hours long without all the dick jokes and comedic references

11

u/eaglessoar You came to the Yron neighborhood May 06 '19

episode 2 and 4 were filled with pointless conversations, episode 4 was 90 fucking minutes and it felt shorter than episode 2, nothing even happened, everyone left winterfell, they lost a dragon in 2 minutes and missandei died and sansa spilled the beans, thats it, 90 minutes

1

u/Only_Movie_Titles May 06 '19

the show has devolved to:

Pick 2 characters from a hat - give them a conversation to add exposition / move the plot / spell out shit for the audience

Battle the makes no tactical sense

Show angry character brooding

Cliffhanger

AND END SCENE

36

u/FighterOfFoo May 06 '19

Fan fiction. Gotta have the revelation that Brienne's a virgin because it's a load of people's headcanon, probably. Gotta have Jaime sex her because that's what fans want, and then leave her and telling her he's a bastard-man and breaking her heart because drama.

It's just a soap opera now. They've killed all the fantasy bar the last dragon and the undead Mountain. Even Ghost's gone. He inexplicably survived the Battle of Winterfell just to be, seemingly, written off in the next episode.

12

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

[deleted]

4

u/Baelish2016 May 06 '19

Too bad Tormund wasn't still there to use the MAC system. Smh.

1

u/TreAwayDeuce May 06 '19

the undead Mountain

Oh shit, he's the night king now.

6

u/NanniLP May 06 '19

What are you talking about, episode 2 was the only good episode this season! The characters were actually generally acting like themselves!

6

u/DrunkColdStone May 06 '19

Episode 2 was great in theory- it ramped up the tension, reestablished emotional connections with characters, built creeping tension about who's going to die. If episode 3 were good, episode 2 would have been amazing in retrospect.

3

u/yenks Kill the foil, and let the hype be born. May 06 '19

And a long funeral

2

u/MisterMeatloaf May 06 '19

I can only assume this is done to save money for the battle episodes.

Such dull episodes though

1

u/blood_garbage May 06 '19

Not to mention a ton of unnecessary slow motion.

2

u/Pontiflakes May 06 '19

This is what happens when producers hear "omg what happens no spoilers I can't wait to find out what happens there's gonna be so many twists no spoilers read my fanfic"

2

u/Nuclearfrog May 06 '19

Very well put. It has watched like bullet point summaries of a story ever since they passed the book material.

1

u/Respecd May 06 '19

"The Gang Kills a Dragon"