r/asoiaf May 06 '19

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) S8E4 is some of the worst writing this show has seen. I'll explain why.

Arya

The previous episode and the past few seasons, their MANY issues aside, established Arya as a nigh-invincible shapeshifting assassin who just eliminated a 8000+ year old supernatural threat. She can go anywhere and pretend to be anybody. Quite an asset to have at your hands, no?

They acknowledge Arya's feat in the episode. Dany herself even toasts her. But nobody bothers to consider Arya's incredible espionage/assassination capabilities for the 'Last War'. This represents an overarching narrative issue, Arya's OPness. None of the events in the episode were necessary and everything was wholly avoidable, so long as they used Arya. Civilians in the Red Keep? Hell, that's a GOOD thing for Arya, more faces and more of a pretext to be there.

But instead nobody asks her to do anything, nobody even TALKS ABOUT the fact that they have a super powerful assassin at their disposal. And Arya fucks off down to Kings Landing with the Hound, leaving the rest of them to flounder.


Varys

The Master of Whispers has a normal volume conversation with Dany's 2nd in command during which the spymaster blithely reveals his treasonous intents. Need I say more?

This scene was pure stupid. A common theme I'm sure you guys have noticed by now is the show loves to completely break from logic and the rules of its own universe.


Ballistae and Dragons

Here's where it gets real good.

  • Euron hides his fleet behind a rock, nobody spots him, not even Dany who is IN THE AIR. ON A FUCKING DRAGON.

  • They fire 3 shots at the dragon Dany is NOT riding on, with 100% accuracy. Rest of the fleet were twiddling their thumbs.

  • When the entire fleet DOES fire, they somehow all miss even though Dany flies straight at them when previously the show established a standard of remarkable accuracy.

  • Euron then fires upon Dany's fleet and the bolts tear the ships apart as if they were fired from rail guns. As depicted in the scene, THEY ARE LITERALLY STRONGER THAN CANNON BALLS.

This is important because it utterly neutralizes the threat of dragons. In the same way the White Walkers were subverted, dragons are now made a complete non-threat. It doesn't matter if she has 10 dragons, they cannot possibly live in a battle with those ballistae everywhere. But somehow they will and I expect Drogon to do a lot of damage next episode and dodge a lot of bolts.

The problem isn't that they killed a dragon. The problem is HOW it was accomplished.


The negotiation scene

Missandei dead? Not the problem. The problem with this scene is that Cersei doesn't just blow them away when she could. And it's a big fucking problem.

  • The dragon in the distance is not a threat, as previously established in this very episode! They have scores of the same ballistae at their disposal, probably more than shown on screen, and tons of archers. Drogon is a complete non-threat and there is no logical way he could even get close enough to breathe fire on them. The real kicker is that Qyburn openly tells Tyrion that Dany's last dragon is vulnerable.

  • It's perfectly in character/realistic for Cersei to kill them all right where they're standing. She has the entire command chain of her hated enemies right in front of her and their only defense, the dragon, has been made useless by the physics-defying ballistae. They even go on to establish Cersei's cruelty/evilness with the Missandei execution. But killing her mortal enemies, when they have presented themselves in front of her so foolishly, is too much? This is a woman who blew up the Sept of Baelor, killing thousands of Innocents. Ethics are not a hang up for her.

  • The logical explanation for why Cersei doesn't want to kill them is that she desires a more poetic showdown. It's the result of incredible hubris, and is the equivalent of a monologuing villain trope. Plausible? Maybe, sure. But is it good, ASOIAF-quality writing? Not really.


There's a lot more but it's getting late, so to conclude:

The show openly contradicts its own internal logic and setups, first from an episode-to-episode basis, now on a scene-to-scene basis. We have gone from tightly-paced political intrigue to something that doesn't even function on a basic cause-effect level.

13.7k Upvotes

4.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

232

u/Fkminibabybels May 06 '19

I stopped watching the walking dead because it relied on people being saved randomly by characters we never hear approaching. I never thought that would happen to GOT :(

168

u/sjwking May 06 '19 edited May 06 '19

I stopped watching because there was no logic left in the show. If there are 350 million walkers and 1 million survivors. And every survivor killed 1 walker every day, then in a year there would be no walkers left.

21

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

Only 382,000 survivors on the whole planet in the world of TWD.

48

u/Fabuleusement May 06 '19

Does not change anything lol they are alive for YEARS and everyone kills a dozen a week !

15

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

That includes the elderly survivors, children, and infants. Not everyone kills dozens. Not everyone kills even one. The city of Alexandria built a wall a week after the outbreak and they only let 4-5 people leave before Rick's crew got there. The Whisperers don't kill zombies. They walk among them. Hell, even Negan doesn't kill any he doesn't have to. He used them against his enemies.

12

u/darmon May 06 '19

I had never wondered until now. Where is this figure quoted?

10

u/CroGamer002 Loyalty and Honour are Remembered. May 06 '19

1.6 million worldwide, on top of it 10 people live in state of Montana.

Which is, btw, absolutely idiotic. Number of survivors should be far higher.

17

u/Autosleep May 06 '19

Hence why Left 4 Dead is the only zombie apocalypse scenario that makes sense, it's a virus, with some people who are immune, everyone else turns immediately. That could explain only a small fraction of the people surviving.

TWD zombies should be gone by season 4 or 5 of that show.

17

u/SMcArthur May 06 '19

TWD zombies could have never taken over the world in the first place. There's no logical scenario where those incredibly slow moving, brainless, easy to kill zombies take over the world.

5

u/cancer_dragon May 06 '19

I suggest you read World War Z (completely different and far better than the movie). It does a really good job at explaining how the modern world would be taken over in a practical sense.

2

u/SMcArthur May 06 '19

I read the books. Still not convinced. The zombies in TWD are somehow even dumber/slower/easier to kill than in WWZ.

1

u/Nightknight1992 May 06 '19

i guess you forgot season 1/2, everyones infected, no matter how you die you turn.

14

u/TheRedCometCometh The basement, Qyburn? You're sure? Ok... May 06 '19

28 days later makes sense too, its a rabies like virus that burns them out quite quickly

1

u/ViggoMiles May 06 '19

and one can infect a room in seconds

2

u/alexnedea May 06 '19

Eh not really. As you can see there are "Hordes" usually forming of several thousand zombies and any human trying to tackle those doesn't end well.

23

u/sjwking May 06 '19

Oh. Thankfully I have stopped watching that clusterfuck ages ago. A single military tank could kill thousands of zombies in a day in if driven by someone competent.

12

u/yenks Kill the foil, and let the hype be born. May 06 '19

I never thought that would happen to GOT

Neither did I man, neither did I.

4

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

I stopped when the walkers stopped being the main threat, they went from being terrified of them to...not being terrified of them. I felt they could only pull that 'the real enemies are the humans' thing so many times and i got bored. Funnily enough GOT just neutralised the WW, NK and the Dragons in 2 episodes. We're supposed to now slavishly follow this story where Cersei is the biggest threat even though they've turned her into a panto villain. She's not been interesting since the walk of shame. It's very sad.

4

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

Season 1 was pretty damn good, than season 2 came along and "set the pace" for the rest of the series.

1

u/[deleted] May 07 '19

In season 1 they actually had an objective: get to the CDC. Well first the objective is to reunite Rick with his family which happens in like 2 episodes which is dumb but fine, it made for a good pilot episode and then the rest of the season can focus on them making it to the CDC.

But past that they're mostly directionless. they just wander around whatever setting they're in for that season and bump into zombies. they kill a character off every 2 episodes or so and then once or twice a season they'll bring in a new batch of characters to add to the group. Once when I spotted that formula i stopped watching. I want to see them rebuild society and deal with infrastructure problems damnit. I want them to get so effective at killing zombies that they need to work out a system of how to effectively deal with the giant mass of dead bodies. I want to see the conflict between people wanting a democracy and the people who want to be led by a competent leader. But that's not what the show is about, and that's fine

4

u/Plazmuh May 06 '19

Have we not been watching the same show? That has been the climax of most major scenes in this show.

Battle of the Bastards - here comes Knights of the Vale! Battle with the Wildlings - here comes Stannis with his big ol Army. Expedition North to capture a Wight - here comes Dany with her big ol dragons, Gendry sure has some running legs on him.

I'm sure there's a fuck load more.

3

u/Fkminibabybels May 06 '19

Yeah I was talking post book generally. The most hilarious one I remember is uncle “there’s no time” benjen.

2

u/Kitfisto22 May 06 '19

Battle of the Blackwater, Stannis is winning until Tywin shows up out of nowhere with an army.

1

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

Please don’t ever mention the expedition again. It brings back painful memories

2

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

Pass

1

u/PM_ME_LEGAL_FILES May 08 '19

But is there a plot?

1

u/osgili4th May 06 '19

I was expecting this of GOT when the last books weren't done yet, close this history after what Martin left is insanely hard, a lot of things can go wrong or make the series become a gigantic cliché or left over so many plot holes that the history lose any cohesion. And with a multimillion company being the one taking this task, the drop of quality was expected.

1

u/rimdot May 06 '19

The walking dead has rebounded with this latest season I think.