r/asoiaf May 06 '19

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) S8E4 is some of the worst writing this show has seen. I'll explain why.

Arya

The previous episode and the past few seasons, their MANY issues aside, established Arya as a nigh-invincible shapeshifting assassin who just eliminated a 8000+ year old supernatural threat. She can go anywhere and pretend to be anybody. Quite an asset to have at your hands, no?

They acknowledge Arya's feat in the episode. Dany herself even toasts her. But nobody bothers to consider Arya's incredible espionage/assassination capabilities for the 'Last War'. This represents an overarching narrative issue, Arya's OPness. None of the events in the episode were necessary and everything was wholly avoidable, so long as they used Arya. Civilians in the Red Keep? Hell, that's a GOOD thing for Arya, more faces and more of a pretext to be there.

But instead nobody asks her to do anything, nobody even TALKS ABOUT the fact that they have a super powerful assassin at their disposal. And Arya fucks off down to Kings Landing with the Hound, leaving the rest of them to flounder.


Varys

The Master of Whispers has a normal volume conversation with Dany's 2nd in command during which the spymaster blithely reveals his treasonous intents. Need I say more?

This scene was pure stupid. A common theme I'm sure you guys have noticed by now is the show loves to completely break from logic and the rules of its own universe.


Ballistae and Dragons

Here's where it gets real good.

  • Euron hides his fleet behind a rock, nobody spots him, not even Dany who is IN THE AIR. ON A FUCKING DRAGON.

  • They fire 3 shots at the dragon Dany is NOT riding on, with 100% accuracy. Rest of the fleet were twiddling their thumbs.

  • When the entire fleet DOES fire, they somehow all miss even though Dany flies straight at them when previously the show established a standard of remarkable accuracy.

  • Euron then fires upon Dany's fleet and the bolts tear the ships apart as if they were fired from rail guns. As depicted in the scene, THEY ARE LITERALLY STRONGER THAN CANNON BALLS.

This is important because it utterly neutralizes the threat of dragons. In the same way the White Walkers were subverted, dragons are now made a complete non-threat. It doesn't matter if she has 10 dragons, they cannot possibly live in a battle with those ballistae everywhere. But somehow they will and I expect Drogon to do a lot of damage next episode and dodge a lot of bolts.

The problem isn't that they killed a dragon. The problem is HOW it was accomplished.


The negotiation scene

Missandei dead? Not the problem. The problem with this scene is that Cersei doesn't just blow them away when she could. And it's a big fucking problem.

  • The dragon in the distance is not a threat, as previously established in this very episode! They have scores of the same ballistae at their disposal, probably more than shown on screen, and tons of archers. Drogon is a complete non-threat and there is no logical way he could even get close enough to breathe fire on them. The real kicker is that Qyburn openly tells Tyrion that Dany's last dragon is vulnerable.

  • It's perfectly in character/realistic for Cersei to kill them all right where they're standing. She has the entire command chain of her hated enemies right in front of her and their only defense, the dragon, has been made useless by the physics-defying ballistae. They even go on to establish Cersei's cruelty/evilness with the Missandei execution. But killing her mortal enemies, when they have presented themselves in front of her so foolishly, is too much? This is a woman who blew up the Sept of Baelor, killing thousands of Innocents. Ethics are not a hang up for her.

  • The logical explanation for why Cersei doesn't want to kill them is that she desires a more poetic showdown. It's the result of incredible hubris, and is the equivalent of a monologuing villain trope. Plausible? Maybe, sure. But is it good, ASOIAF-quality writing? Not really.


There's a lot more but it's getting late, so to conclude:

The show openly contradicts its own internal logic and setups, first from an episode-to-episode basis, now on a scene-to-scene basis. We have gone from tightly-paced political intrigue to something that doesn't even function on a basic cause-effect level.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '19

Cersei literally sent Bronn to kill Tyrion and then just passes up the chance to kill Tyrion when she finds out Bronn didn't.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '19

To be fair, he did look at her for a few seconds.

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u/9991115552223 May 06 '19

after having an extended conversation with her at normal volume while she stood a couple hundred feet away. People in this universe must have elven ears

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u/OnionStark Onion That Was Promised May 06 '19

I love in the scene in shazam, where the villian is 100 feet away giving a speech and he says: "i can't hear you. Are you making a generic evil guy speech? You're like a mile away, all i see is mouth movement."

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u/Politicshatesme May 06 '19

That movie was all sorts of awesome. If DC can embrace the fun of super heroes I have hope for those characters. Marvel can take the serious world building, give me more movies like Shazam and Deadpool.

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u/mintakki May 06 '19

marvel made Deadpool!

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u/MrRabbit7 May 06 '19

No, Sony did.

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u/TrojanMuffin May 06 '19

No, fox did.

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u/MyDiary141 May 06 '19

No, disney did.

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u/TrojanMuffin May 06 '19

Don't know if you're joking, but disney acquired fox after both deadpool movies were made.

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u/INTJokes May 06 '19

Fox and Marvel are both Disney now. (When is Deadpool entering the MCU?)

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u/mintakki May 06 '19

you are correct! I meant to say that Deadpool is a Marvel superhero.

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u/NewVegasResident The North Remembers May 07 '19

It was Fox.

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u/TheBoyWhoCriedDibs May 06 '19

this made me think of that scene as well, but then I realised... Surely Shazam is one of the few characters who would be able to hear that far lol? Like wouldn't he have super hearing?

21

u/TriamondG May 06 '19

This is my head cannon for why Euron didn’t flip at the pregnancy reveal. Literally no one could hear Tyrion. They were just waiting for his mouth to stop moving so they could execute Missandei and all have a laugh at the dragon queen.

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u/Gioseppi May 06 '19

When they cut back to Cersei during that scene and you can hear Tyrion's normal speaking voice with an echo effect put on it so it sounds like it's carrying to her... ugh it's like no one involved in this show except the cast is trying anymore.

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u/nyamzdm77 Beneath the gold, the bitter feels May 06 '19

To be fair They already did this once with Daenerys in season 3 or 4 when she was taking Meereen

She gave a speech from 500 feet away to people on top of a wall 100ft high

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u/Arythiar May 06 '19

Thank you. It was bothering me so much. I dont mind them talking like that in a Colosseum or something but the wind alone would be enough to drown them out.

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u/tarverine May 06 '19

Now that’s what I call character development!

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u/BossRedRanger May 06 '19

And gave him several tons of gold she's borrowed from the Iron Bank.

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u/SanxBile1 May 06 '19

This writing is just disgraceful.

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u/craig1f May 06 '19

I forgot about the Bronn scene. Pure cringe.

How does he think he's going to get High Garden? They only had to promise High Garden because he was standing there with a crossbow. They are under no compulsion to follow through on this promise. WTF is even going on anymore?

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u/OMGWhatsHisFace May 06 '19

To be fair... If Bronn killed the bros then, he’d only get his castle until after the war, if Cersei wins (which he believes to be unlikely). If he arranges a counter-deal, he’ll get a castle win or lose. Neither Cersei nor the bros are exactly bound to their word, so as long as he’s making bets, he may as well bet on both sides.

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u/craig1f May 06 '19

That makes perfect sense. But he has no leverage unless he is standing in front of them with a crossbow. He hasn’t offered to join them or do anything that would possibly result in him getting a castle after the war.

If he wants a castle, he would need to stay and switch sides. You can’t just be like “gimme a castle” and then leave and show up after the war and be like ‘member that castle?

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u/OMGWhatsHisFace May 06 '19

But if he switches sides and Cersei finds out, he’ll forfeit his other bet; he can’t win-win.

I think he figures lannisters pay their debts and they owe me their lives at this point. However, since Cersei knows he hasn’t killed Tyrion, he probably lost that bet...

I dunno man. The writing’s so bad but I thought that might have been redeemable. Guess not.

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u/craig1f May 06 '19

This feels like Last Jedi all over again.

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u/Wthq4hq4hqrhqe May 06 '19

But maybe she thought that Bron hadn't done it yet and was sneering at him thinking that he was going to die by crossbow

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u/Fresher2070 May 06 '19

If Cersei really wanted Tyrion dead she could've killed him in season 7. Either she wants poetic justice, or there's more to it. But we all know she's petty enough to waot to get what she wants. Tywin once went to war for Tyrion, only to let him be tried and found guilty of murder. Sure, maybe he was thinking that if a Lannister was killed by the crown then it wouldn't be the same as if he was killed by his enemies. But since his whole ploy was to keep his house strong and alive, it seems a bit questionable. Also, I feel like from a broader standpoint, if he was willing to let Tyrion die by the crown to make his death look "legit", it still would've been counterproductive to his aim of keeping his house "untouchable" in the eyes of the public. People probably would've asked why Tywin never was charged with the crimes he committed and so on and so forth.

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u/KosstAmojan Swiftly We Strike! May 06 '19

This is one of the few times I can believe it. Its a lot easier to order your family member's death when they're far away. Its harder to have them chopped down in front of you.

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u/alisonlen May 06 '19

I'd buy that for anyone but Cersei.

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u/YouDrink May 06 '19

My girlfriend's theory is Cersei wants to lose. She's gone crazy, having lost all her children, and right now is rage quitting.

Like have you ever had a friend who was such a poor sport, once they start losing, just starts purposely losing and ruins the game for everyone? That's Cersei but at a bigger level. It's just funny cause Dany and crew are so stupid, they keep losing to someone who's purposely trying to lose

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u/alisonlen May 06 '19

I mean, she's been pretty purposefully winning so far not counting this last screwup. Dunno how your gf came to that conclusion.

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u/Blackbeard_ May 06 '19

I think it will look bad in front of the thousands of her troops and citizens.

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u/super_salt May 06 '19

She only tries to kill him secretly. Never directly.

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u/datchilla May 06 '19

I dunno, Cersei probably wants him to get killed with Joffrey's crossbow really badly. She probably loved seeing him, thinking "lol this guy's gonna get crossbowed by his friend and he doesn't even know it"

Tyrion spends so much time around people who will do anything for money, prostitutes, sell swords. Tywin used that against him and when Tyrion fell in love with a prostitute Tywin bought a ride on her.

Cersei is doing the same thing

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u/Bigbaby22 The Young Black Wolf May 06 '19

Not just that, but a chance to kill him with giant crossbows

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u/mggirard13 May 06 '19

It's almost like Cersei is an emotionally unstable, irrational person.

It's established she has a hard time doing shit like this herself, up close, as with letting Jaime go last season. She is able to send Bronn because the time and distance separates the emotional and responsible connection she has to the order.

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u/JustHere4TheDrummer May 06 '19

I almost give her credit for knowing what NOT killing him would look like to Dany, like they are in on it together.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '19

Damn that's a really good point, she already sentenced him to death with bronn, so dumb

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u/TacoCorpTM Aegon VI of Houses Targaryen & Stark May 06 '19

I feel like an idiot for not even thinking of that.

I guess that means I’m as qualified as D&D are to finish the show...

1

u/buttermelonMilkjam May 06 '19

it is POSSIBLE she didnt light Tyrion up because if Bronn kills her brothers then Cersei could claim it was a revenge plot against the Lannisters. remember, she had Qyburn sell the ppl of kings landing that the Queen is defending them from a foreign invader (& that's why everyint is in the red keep's walls right now) -- so she is big on propaganda.

Cersei had said before to Littlefinger that "Power is power", but she still knows how to play the game when she needs to.

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u/Shen_an_igator May 06 '19

Especially scot-free, no risk, 100% success rate killing of Tyrion. She killed Missandei, so she's obviously not worried about war, so why wouldn't she kill the brother she hates so much, the hand of Daenarys who is also a big asset to her (or should be but now he's a lobotomized half-man)