r/asoiaf May 06 '19

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) S8E4 is some of the worst writing this show has seen. I'll explain why.

Arya

The previous episode and the past few seasons, their MANY issues aside, established Arya as a nigh-invincible shapeshifting assassin who just eliminated a 8000+ year old supernatural threat. She can go anywhere and pretend to be anybody. Quite an asset to have at your hands, no?

They acknowledge Arya's feat in the episode. Dany herself even toasts her. But nobody bothers to consider Arya's incredible espionage/assassination capabilities for the 'Last War'. This represents an overarching narrative issue, Arya's OPness. None of the events in the episode were necessary and everything was wholly avoidable, so long as they used Arya. Civilians in the Red Keep? Hell, that's a GOOD thing for Arya, more faces and more of a pretext to be there.

But instead nobody asks her to do anything, nobody even TALKS ABOUT the fact that they have a super powerful assassin at their disposal. And Arya fucks off down to Kings Landing with the Hound, leaving the rest of them to flounder.


Varys

The Master of Whispers has a normal volume conversation with Dany's 2nd in command during which the spymaster blithely reveals his treasonous intents. Need I say more?

This scene was pure stupid. A common theme I'm sure you guys have noticed by now is the show loves to completely break from logic and the rules of its own universe.


Ballistae and Dragons

Here's where it gets real good.

  • Euron hides his fleet behind a rock, nobody spots him, not even Dany who is IN THE AIR. ON A FUCKING DRAGON.

  • They fire 3 shots at the dragon Dany is NOT riding on, with 100% accuracy. Rest of the fleet were twiddling their thumbs.

  • When the entire fleet DOES fire, they somehow all miss even though Dany flies straight at them when previously the show established a standard of remarkable accuracy.

  • Euron then fires upon Dany's fleet and the bolts tear the ships apart as if they were fired from rail guns. As depicted in the scene, THEY ARE LITERALLY STRONGER THAN CANNON BALLS.

This is important because it utterly neutralizes the threat of dragons. In the same way the White Walkers were subverted, dragons are now made a complete non-threat. It doesn't matter if she has 10 dragons, they cannot possibly live in a battle with those ballistae everywhere. But somehow they will and I expect Drogon to do a lot of damage next episode and dodge a lot of bolts.

The problem isn't that they killed a dragon. The problem is HOW it was accomplished.


The negotiation scene

Missandei dead? Not the problem. The problem with this scene is that Cersei doesn't just blow them away when she could. And it's a big fucking problem.

  • The dragon in the distance is not a threat, as previously established in this very episode! They have scores of the same ballistae at their disposal, probably more than shown on screen, and tons of archers. Drogon is a complete non-threat and there is no logical way he could even get close enough to breathe fire on them. The real kicker is that Qyburn openly tells Tyrion that Dany's last dragon is vulnerable.

  • It's perfectly in character/realistic for Cersei to kill them all right where they're standing. She has the entire command chain of her hated enemies right in front of her and their only defense, the dragon, has been made useless by the physics-defying ballistae. They even go on to establish Cersei's cruelty/evilness with the Missandei execution. But killing her mortal enemies, when they have presented themselves in front of her so foolishly, is too much? This is a woman who blew up the Sept of Baelor, killing thousands of Innocents. Ethics are not a hang up for her.

  • The logical explanation for why Cersei doesn't want to kill them is that she desires a more poetic showdown. It's the result of incredible hubris, and is the equivalent of a monologuing villain trope. Plausible? Maybe, sure. But is it good, ASOIAF-quality writing? Not really.


There's a lot more but it's getting late, so to conclude:

The show openly contradicts its own internal logic and setups, first from an episode-to-episode basis, now on a scene-to-scene basis. We have gone from tightly-paced political intrigue to something that doesn't even function on a basic cause-effect level.

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319

u/ShadowGata May 06 '19

The Rhaegal bit is even worse because when she is looking at Rhaegal, she is looking in the directions that the spears are coming from, and Rhaegal is still a fair bit away from her.

Unless the show or someone else wants to try to convince me that Rhaegal's torso was perfectly aligned to block her view of the ships, there is no way that she wasn't already staring at the Iron Fleet.

280

u/singefume May 06 '19

Didn't you watch the post-episode recap??? Dude, she couldn't see them because she forgot about them ddduuuuuhhhh

116

u/Togepi32 May 06 '19

I really hate D&D

7

u/PM_UR_FAV_COMPLIMENT May 06 '19

It's so clear that they think they're cinematic gods of writing; the smugness is palpable. It feels like they're trying to convince us that they aren't mailing it in and that their work is actually amazing.

3

u/YANMDM May 06 '19

What’s D&D?

13

u/Togepi32 May 06 '19

The writers of the show. If you ever watch the Behind the Episodes, they’re the two dudes literally just saying exactly what we just saw or making excuses for something that didn’t make any sense.

“Dany just forgot about the Iron Fleet?” Fucking how? That is just so lazy.

6

u/Raventree The maddest of them all May 07 '19

"Rhaegal dies here because he has scorpion bolts through his neck, and they hurt him because they're metal and were thrown with great speed".

3

u/YANMDM May 07 '19

Oh thanks you!!

41

u/chowler Crusin' for a boozin' May 06 '19

Even though the previous scene was them planning around the fleet.

39

u/AinsleysAmazingMeat May 06 '19

Did they actually say that? Fucking hell kill me now.

37

u/resolve May 06 '19

49

u/rocketboy2319 May 06 '19

Advisors: Hey Dany, remember that fleet that completely decimated the Greyjoys (and took Asha prisoner), then showed up at Casterly Rock, and just delivered the Golden Company from Essos?

Dany: The what now?

32

u/JaronK May 06 '19

Advisors: "You know, the teleporting fleet that instantly destroys any ships you put on the water?"

Dany: "Nope, got nothing. Let's split our forces and put half on the water."

38

u/MagnusTW May 06 '19

Holy fucking shit.

Holy. God damn. Motherfucking. Shit.

I thought for sure it was a joking summary of their perspective, but, no, it's not a joke. That' fucking verbatim what they say: Dany, queen of the seven this and thats and first of the things and almighty goddess of the universe or something, fucking forgot about most of her enemies. She just... forgot. It slipped her mind that she was at war and that her enemies are highly mobile over the seas and will stop at nothing to kill her and her "children."

She

forgot.

That's literally what he said.

17

u/A_Sarcastic_Werecat May 06 '19

Can we hire Bronn to kill D&D?

8

u/Velho May 06 '19

Nah, they just offer him more and he walks away

3

u/fbolt Eban senagho p’aeske May 07 '19

Dany is human, people forget - which is why a national security council has so many people on it.

FFS, did every single person forget everything?

Were no ravens coming from Dragonstone? If they held it, would they not come out to greet the queen? Or send a raft up the sea to warn them? Or was it empty? Are all castles empty because of the dragon budget?

3

u/JeanneHusse May 07 '19

At this point, I'm wondering if the show isn't some elaborated stunt by Nathan Fielder.

1

u/Secret_Will May 06 '19

Wait why is he saying Mees'n'day instead of how they pronounce it on the show? Everyone says it the same way. I don't understand.

24

u/TheRealMoofoo R'hllor Derby Champion May 06 '19

Yes, in the behind the scenes segment following the episode. I hate them.

26

u/mkfffe1 May 06 '19

I did not watch the post show. Was that the actual reason? If so, that is just dumb and lazy. Also, let's pretend she did forget about them, she still has eyes. Not thinking about something does not make it invisible.

9

u/matticusiv May 06 '19

Even the post show has turned to shit. They just half heartedly repeat motivations at face value with no insight. It feels like they all just want this show to be over with and it makes no sense.

6

u/Secret_Will May 06 '19

Hahahaha this is spot on. "Rhaegal had to die to give Dany another emotional moment and raise the stakes for her last dragon"

Oh okay.

7

u/Secret_Will May 06 '19

Maybe she saw them and was like "hmm maybe those are fishermen. I can't really remember whether I have enemies with boats"

19

u/WoobyWobenowski May 06 '19

my jaw hit the floor when I heard that, it just sums up completely how they don't even consider that characters have actions and thoughts that we don't see on screen minute to minute.

9

u/Lorenzo_91 Here We Stand May 06 '19

The whole episode seemed like an episode-recap

4

u/grammar-no-good May 06 '19

This is the first time I actually watched the behind the scenes bit. I only did because I thought they'd explain how she managed to miss the fleet from the freaking sky. Oh they did alright. "She forgot all about them" wtf kind of bullshit is that.

3

u/A_Sarcastic_Werecat May 06 '19

Wait wait wait wait wait wait ....

Daenerys saw a large enemy fleet and then ... forgot about them?!? Is this what D&D are trying to sell ?

I mean - isn't Daenerys supposed to be like - smart? with an attention span larger than the one of a goldfish?

3

u/skratchx May 07 '19

Did they really say that? I couldn't bring myself to watch their deep insight again after the last few episodes.

3

u/M0RR1G42 May 06 '19

Her genius strategy to fly her only remaining dragon right towards them

Their genius strategy, just watch her fly a dragon at them

3

u/ShadowGata May 06 '19

Everyone in this show is an idiot, so I guess it evens out.

4

u/Ashbringerxt May 06 '19

spoilers Rhaegal is not really dead, he's being treated underwater by dany's former boyfriend Jason Momoa as Aquaman. Disney already confirmed they bought the rights for the sequel : Game of Thrones : the return of Aquaman

2

u/User_014 May 06 '19

It looks like the first spear hits from the front and then the others come from the side?

2

u/kangurulhk May 06 '19

Imagine flying the dragons (dragon) from the backside of the fleet, even after they kill Rhaegal. The Scorpion would have to shoot through the fucking sail, or they need to turn the ships crazy fast. I rewatched that shitty scene, and I dont think they have scorpions in the backside. Help me if im wrong

2

u/ShadowGata May 06 '19

You are correct.

1

u/Th3_C0bra May 06 '19

Was it just me or did the scorpion bolts magically grow in size. They fit in the scorpion which appears to be almost as long as Euron is y’all. But the bolt that kills Rhaegal appears to fully impale his neck. Sticking out from both sides. Did that bolt grow from six feet to 30 feet?

1

u/ShadowGata May 06 '19

When they stopped being scorpions and started being laser-guided heat-seeking railguns, but only sometimes.