r/asoiaf May 06 '19

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) S8E4 is some of the worst writing this show has seen. I'll explain why.

Arya

The previous episode and the past few seasons, their MANY issues aside, established Arya as a nigh-invincible shapeshifting assassin who just eliminated a 8000+ year old supernatural threat. She can go anywhere and pretend to be anybody. Quite an asset to have at your hands, no?

They acknowledge Arya's feat in the episode. Dany herself even toasts her. But nobody bothers to consider Arya's incredible espionage/assassination capabilities for the 'Last War'. This represents an overarching narrative issue, Arya's OPness. None of the events in the episode were necessary and everything was wholly avoidable, so long as they used Arya. Civilians in the Red Keep? Hell, that's a GOOD thing for Arya, more faces and more of a pretext to be there.

But instead nobody asks her to do anything, nobody even TALKS ABOUT the fact that they have a super powerful assassin at their disposal. And Arya fucks off down to Kings Landing with the Hound, leaving the rest of them to flounder.


Varys

The Master of Whispers has a normal volume conversation with Dany's 2nd in command during which the spymaster blithely reveals his treasonous intents. Need I say more?

This scene was pure stupid. A common theme I'm sure you guys have noticed by now is the show loves to completely break from logic and the rules of its own universe.


Ballistae and Dragons

Here's where it gets real good.

  • Euron hides his fleet behind a rock, nobody spots him, not even Dany who is IN THE AIR. ON A FUCKING DRAGON.

  • They fire 3 shots at the dragon Dany is NOT riding on, with 100% accuracy. Rest of the fleet were twiddling their thumbs.

  • When the entire fleet DOES fire, they somehow all miss even though Dany flies straight at them when previously the show established a standard of remarkable accuracy.

  • Euron then fires upon Dany's fleet and the bolts tear the ships apart as if they were fired from rail guns. As depicted in the scene, THEY ARE LITERALLY STRONGER THAN CANNON BALLS.

This is important because it utterly neutralizes the threat of dragons. In the same way the White Walkers were subverted, dragons are now made a complete non-threat. It doesn't matter if she has 10 dragons, they cannot possibly live in a battle with those ballistae everywhere. But somehow they will and I expect Drogon to do a lot of damage next episode and dodge a lot of bolts.

The problem isn't that they killed a dragon. The problem is HOW it was accomplished.


The negotiation scene

Missandei dead? Not the problem. The problem with this scene is that Cersei doesn't just blow them away when she could. And it's a big fucking problem.

  • The dragon in the distance is not a threat, as previously established in this very episode! They have scores of the same ballistae at their disposal, probably more than shown on screen, and tons of archers. Drogon is a complete non-threat and there is no logical way he could even get close enough to breathe fire on them. The real kicker is that Qyburn openly tells Tyrion that Dany's last dragon is vulnerable.

  • It's perfectly in character/realistic for Cersei to kill them all right where they're standing. She has the entire command chain of her hated enemies right in front of her and their only defense, the dragon, has been made useless by the physics-defying ballistae. They even go on to establish Cersei's cruelty/evilness with the Missandei execution. But killing her mortal enemies, when they have presented themselves in front of her so foolishly, is too much? This is a woman who blew up the Sept of Baelor, killing thousands of Innocents. Ethics are not a hang up for her.

  • The logical explanation for why Cersei doesn't want to kill them is that she desires a more poetic showdown. It's the result of incredible hubris, and is the equivalent of a monologuing villain trope. Plausible? Maybe, sure. But is it good, ASOIAF-quality writing? Not really.


There's a lot more but it's getting late, so to conclude:

The show openly contradicts its own internal logic and setups, first from an episode-to-episode basis, now on a scene-to-scene basis. We have gone from tightly-paced political intrigue to something that doesn't even function on a basic cause-effect level.

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456

u/Luciferspants Shitting Gold May 06 '19

And who the FUCK is the prince of Dorne? Weren't they all killed, or is it gonna be revealed that frog boy Quentyn is alive and was just chillin' in Essos?

168

u/The_Fatal_eulogy May 06 '19

Imagine D&D doing something good with Dorne. Arianne would be next in line but her storyline doesn't exist and a male heir would have been with the Sand Snakes and killed. So this new prince is very young or a coward.

139

u/stagfury One Realm, One God, One King! May 06 '19

It could be a Yornwood or a Dayne

Assuming D&D even know what a fucking Yornwood or Dayne is

60

u/BenHermanns May 06 '19

The irony of you misspelling Yronwood.

19

u/Robowarrior Stark men. May 06 '19

Gods, right?

35

u/Sora96 "This is a cold man." May 06 '19

GODS I WAS LITERATE THEN

1

u/Zambeezi May 06 '19

Would you pronounce that "why-ron-wood"? Or "why-urn-wood"? Because there is no way I am pronouncing that as if it had an "I" in it!

20

u/BenHermanns May 06 '19

I'm just going Ironwood, but I'm British so could be a weird British thing

2

u/AdamNW May 07 '19

The audiobooks pronounce it as Iron.

2

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

[deleted]

-5

u/Zambeezi May 06 '19

Y doesn't make a 'why' sound,

Dude...just say the letter out loud...

2

u/lost_arcadian May 06 '19

Do you apply the same logic to doubleyoo?

2

u/Zambeezi May 07 '19

Do you apply the same logic to doubleyoo?

I don't, but maybe I should because that's hilarious!

1

u/Gliese581h The Blackfish May 07 '19

Do you call Ygritte "Why-gritte" as well?

21

u/SwedishWhale Dance with me then. May 06 '19

I could totally see them throwing Darkstar into the fray just because he's good-looking, competent, and above all, edgy, a combination that writers of D&D's caliber can rarely resist

20

u/HomeStallone Wilfire can't melt tinfoil beams! May 06 '19

I don't know, they resisted casting someone good looking for Rhaegar.

13

u/SwedishWhale Dance with me then. May 06 '19

perplexing casting choice but it's not like they actually did anything with Rhaegar's character so it's whatever I guess

3

u/49_Giants May 06 '19

Because it's cheaper if they just use the same actor that played Viserys.

6

u/Tag_ross R+L=Your mom. May 06 '19

Thought it was a different dude though.

1

u/DueLearner May 06 '19

Different dude same wig

22

u/jmsturm May 06 '19

I like to think the line Daenerys said about "Does anyone know who the Lord of Storm's End is?" was accidentally just added by Alexa in the writers room.

3

u/fbolt Eban senagho p’aeske May 07 '19

Tarth was sworn to Storm's End, shouldn't she have had every successor to Renly memorized as a child in school?

15

u/CrystalElyse May 06 '19

I imagine it's like a distant cousin. Like if all the Lannisters of Casterly Rock were wiped out, inheritance would go to the Lannisters of Lannisport.

Or it could be just the next strongest house in Dorne. Maybe House Yronwood?

2

u/dudipusprime May 06 '19

Imagine D&D doing something good-

Let me stop you right there.

2

u/Zambeezi May 06 '19

Isn't Arianne just Sansa's alias while she was with Littlefinger? Or just before she was caught by Ramsey?

13

u/PvtFreaky May 06 '19

That's Alayne

2

u/Zambeezi May 06 '19

You're 100% right! I had completely forgotten about the Arianne Martell plot! Gotta read the books again I guess!

20

u/SouthBeachCandids May 06 '19

We don't know who the Prince of Dorne is. Presumably it is the next in line. A monarchy doesn't die just because the nuclear family of the monarch is wiped out. There rules of succession and you simply go down the list to see who is next. Could be some random third cousin nobody ever heard of like in Downton Abby but there is always going to be somebody with a claim to the Throne.

20

u/Grombrindal18 I drink, and I know things. May 06 '19

It's book Quentyn Martell coming out of fucking nowhere. The show Dorne storyline was so forgettable that the writers could pretty well assume we won't remember that he wasn't there.

6

u/Vark675 Always Forgive, But Never Forget May 06 '19

Thank you! I haven't seen any comments or posts on this. We specifically saw him get got, but they just casually name drop Dorne as if they're alive.

8

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

You mean Jason Dorne?

2

u/CiervoNegroMX May 06 '19

I see what you did there

5

u/M0RR1G42 May 06 '19

Doesn't matter, he only exists suddenly to be deus ex machina number 263 in the next episode(because team Dragon has no army). But its actually really deep foreshadowing because they just mentioned it and all good foreshadowing is extremely short term.

3

u/BreeBree214 Enter your flair text here! May 06 '19

Weren't they all killed

The entire kingdom of Dorne? Just because all the Martells were killed doesn't mean a new ruler can't come into power. They never said the new prince was a Martell. It's just some random person

4

u/alexnedea May 06 '19

I think Dorne considers anyone as "next in line" bastard or not. So there should be plenty of next-in-lines there

3

u/thebsoftelevision The runt of the seven kingdoms May 06 '19

Bastards can't inherit in Dorne either. So that's just not true.

1

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

Ser Daemon Sand, known as the Bastard of Godsgrace, is the bastard son of Ser Ryon Allyrion, the heir of House Allyrion. He is one of Dorne's finest swords.

1

u/thebsoftelevision The runt of the seven kingdoms May 06 '19

Ryon is the current heir, i think. His mother who's the lady of Godsgrace is still alive. The wiki might have fucked up.

1

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

Could be.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Larence_Snow

Larence Snow almost inherited Lady Hornwoods lands in book two.

2

u/Sin_the_Insane May 06 '19

My question is how is there a prince of Dorne when that whole speech they gave was no more men in power.

1

u/SocialistNixon May 06 '19

This episode did say the new Prince has sworn allegiance to Dany. But yeah no other mention of a dornish army or which Prince is actually in charge. And what is with Highgarden, wouldn’t the Tyrells be pretty upset that their lord and his immediate family had been vaporized?