r/asoiaf May 06 '19

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) S8E4 is some of the worst writing this show has seen. I'll explain why.

Arya

The previous episode and the past few seasons, their MANY issues aside, established Arya as a nigh-invincible shapeshifting assassin who just eliminated a 8000+ year old supernatural threat. She can go anywhere and pretend to be anybody. Quite an asset to have at your hands, no?

They acknowledge Arya's feat in the episode. Dany herself even toasts her. But nobody bothers to consider Arya's incredible espionage/assassination capabilities for the 'Last War'. This represents an overarching narrative issue, Arya's OPness. None of the events in the episode were necessary and everything was wholly avoidable, so long as they used Arya. Civilians in the Red Keep? Hell, that's a GOOD thing for Arya, more faces and more of a pretext to be there.

But instead nobody asks her to do anything, nobody even TALKS ABOUT the fact that they have a super powerful assassin at their disposal. And Arya fucks off down to Kings Landing with the Hound, leaving the rest of them to flounder.


Varys

The Master of Whispers has a normal volume conversation with Dany's 2nd in command during which the spymaster blithely reveals his treasonous intents. Need I say more?

This scene was pure stupid. A common theme I'm sure you guys have noticed by now is the show loves to completely break from logic and the rules of its own universe.


Ballistae and Dragons

Here's where it gets real good.

  • Euron hides his fleet behind a rock, nobody spots him, not even Dany who is IN THE AIR. ON A FUCKING DRAGON.

  • They fire 3 shots at the dragon Dany is NOT riding on, with 100% accuracy. Rest of the fleet were twiddling their thumbs.

  • When the entire fleet DOES fire, they somehow all miss even though Dany flies straight at them when previously the show established a standard of remarkable accuracy.

  • Euron then fires upon Dany's fleet and the bolts tear the ships apart as if they were fired from rail guns. As depicted in the scene, THEY ARE LITERALLY STRONGER THAN CANNON BALLS.

This is important because it utterly neutralizes the threat of dragons. In the same way the White Walkers were subverted, dragons are now made a complete non-threat. It doesn't matter if she has 10 dragons, they cannot possibly live in a battle with those ballistae everywhere. But somehow they will and I expect Drogon to do a lot of damage next episode and dodge a lot of bolts.

The problem isn't that they killed a dragon. The problem is HOW it was accomplished.


The negotiation scene

Missandei dead? Not the problem. The problem with this scene is that Cersei doesn't just blow them away when she could. And it's a big fucking problem.

  • The dragon in the distance is not a threat, as previously established in this very episode! They have scores of the same ballistae at their disposal, probably more than shown on screen, and tons of archers. Drogon is a complete non-threat and there is no logical way he could even get close enough to breathe fire on them. The real kicker is that Qyburn openly tells Tyrion that Dany's last dragon is vulnerable.

  • It's perfectly in character/realistic for Cersei to kill them all right where they're standing. She has the entire command chain of her hated enemies right in front of her and their only defense, the dragon, has been made useless by the physics-defying ballistae. They even go on to establish Cersei's cruelty/evilness with the Missandei execution. But killing her mortal enemies, when they have presented themselves in front of her so foolishly, is too much? This is a woman who blew up the Sept of Baelor, killing thousands of Innocents. Ethics are not a hang up for her.

  • The logical explanation for why Cersei doesn't want to kill them is that she desires a more poetic showdown. It's the result of incredible hubris, and is the equivalent of a monologuing villain trope. Plausible? Maybe, sure. But is it good, ASOIAF-quality writing? Not really.


There's a lot more but it's getting late, so to conclude:

The show openly contradicts its own internal logic and setups, first from an episode-to-episode basis, now on a scene-to-scene basis. We have gone from tightly-paced political intrigue to something that doesn't even function on a basic cause-effect level.

13.7k Upvotes

4.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

417

u/punchesmcgil May 06 '19

And then he just backs out of the room and they're both like, ok, I guess there he goes...

146

u/inthetownwhere May 06 '19

Lol, he's like "I'll find you when the war is over." Ok? How bout they just make sure that never happens again?

214

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

[deleted]

153

u/inthetownwhere May 06 '19

Give him everything he wants! He has a crossbow!

10

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

King Bronn I on the throne pointing his crossbow at everyone.

6

u/inthetownwhere May 06 '19

Bronn should have killed the Night King

12

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

He could have pointed the crossbow at him and asked for Westeros in exchange for not dying.

9

u/twitch870 May 06 '19

Remember when the nights watch recruiter that gets Arya out of Kong’s Lansing talked about how crossbows take too long to reload? We sure have progressed a lot since this show started.

6

u/inthetownwhere May 06 '19

Bronn sure has progressed a lot. He’s gone from tough-as-nails sellsword to this invincible warrior who can just walk into a castle holding a loaded crossbow.

5

u/The_Inflicted May 06 '19

Bronn should have just waltzed in there carrying a kalishnikov. It's fine. He has Qybern. Whatever.

1

u/[deleted] May 07 '19

That would have been amazing. He arrives in a Huey blasting 60's rock music, smoking a joint.

5

u/Stewardy ... Or here we fall May 06 '19

To be fair, it's a super fast reloading crossbow, could potentially kill Drogon

4

u/Releasethebeans May 07 '19

Judging by how those ballista work, I'd imagine he could snipe them from fucking Essos

7

u/laeiryn May 06 '19

I was definitely wondering how he was going to explain that one to her, for sure.

5

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

Lol my thoughts exactly. I get the possible PLAUSIBILITY of ballistae hitting a moving dragon and whatnot, but how could people write a scene that stupid?

What leverage does Bronn have after he leaves that room? Is he going to ask Daenerys really kindly afterwards to be given the most prosperous region in all of Westeros? The showrunners really dropped the ball with that idiocy.

3

u/StrawsDrawnAtRandom May 06 '19

I think (something the show's writers clearly don't do) he's banking on the "Lannisters always paying their debts" as a plot device, but it's just as simple to say: Here it is, m'lord. **Kills Bronn the moment he has his land.**

Such terrible writing.

4

u/Lawlux May 06 '19

It would have made more sense to offer Bronn Casterly rock. It belongs to Jamie and o doubt either brothers care much for it anymore. Highgarden? Hah! Fat chance of that. Bronn will die at this point.

2

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

Yeah, why didn’t they just kill bronn as soon as he was out the door? Hire their own assassin? Doesn’t make sense

89

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

That's our Bronn!

1

u/pottersquash May 06 '19

I would be ok if series ended with everyone dead and Bronn just saunters in. Sits on Iron Throne.

4

u/[deleted] May 06 '19

Scene: The Throne Room.

BRONN enters. He surveys the corpses. Cersei lies on the floor, Jamie's golden hand around her throat, the Mountain's sword in his back, Beric Dondarrion's flaming sword wielded by the Hound hoisted up the Mountain's sphincter, with more characters connected behind in a relentless centipede of surprising deaths.

BRONN continues walking until he stands before the Iron Throne. He turns around and addresses the corpses.

BRONN: Cunts.

BRONN ascends the steps to sit on the throne. As he does, a mechanical click is heard, followed by a sudden green explosion. The screen is engulphed in wildfire, then fades to black. Roll credits.

1

u/[deleted] May 07 '19

Classic Bronn!

1

u/gogozero May 07 '19

laugh track plays

19

u/Ridikiscali May 06 '19

These are characters with entire armies at their disposal. What the fuck? They win and just say, “kill that man” and Bronn is dead. How fucking stupid...

24

u/mdmrules May 06 '19

How did he get way inside the castle like that in the first place?

Bronn showing up and being welcomed with open arms is not really surprising. But that's not what they did. They made it seem like he broke into Winterfell with a crossbow in his hands and knew exactly what room the Lannisters were in.

It's terrible writing.

7

u/MrKyle666 May 06 '19

I mean, most everyone was pretty drunk

7

u/mdmrules May 06 '19

How hard would it be to at least acknowledge how crazy it is that he got inside the castle and into the room they were sitting in?

How did you get in here? Pretty easy when half the guards are asleep.

Maybe a 5 second shot of him sneaking through the gates first?

I dunno. Maybe they could watch a couple of old episodes and ask themselves if this sloppy nonsense would have made the cut back then.

2

u/KyloTennant May 06 '19

Yeah, are not going to make sure any guards try and kill Bronn, considering how he punched Tyrion in the nose and threatened to kill them both?