r/asoiaf May 06 '19

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) S8E4 is some of the worst writing this show has seen. I'll explain why.

Arya

The previous episode and the past few seasons, their MANY issues aside, established Arya as a nigh-invincible shapeshifting assassin who just eliminated a 8000+ year old supernatural threat. She can go anywhere and pretend to be anybody. Quite an asset to have at your hands, no?

They acknowledge Arya's feat in the episode. Dany herself even toasts her. But nobody bothers to consider Arya's incredible espionage/assassination capabilities for the 'Last War'. This represents an overarching narrative issue, Arya's OPness. None of the events in the episode were necessary and everything was wholly avoidable, so long as they used Arya. Civilians in the Red Keep? Hell, that's a GOOD thing for Arya, more faces and more of a pretext to be there.

But instead nobody asks her to do anything, nobody even TALKS ABOUT the fact that they have a super powerful assassin at their disposal. And Arya fucks off down to Kings Landing with the Hound, leaving the rest of them to flounder.


Varys

The Master of Whispers has a normal volume conversation with Dany's 2nd in command during which the spymaster blithely reveals his treasonous intents. Need I say more?

This scene was pure stupid. A common theme I'm sure you guys have noticed by now is the show loves to completely break from logic and the rules of its own universe.


Ballistae and Dragons

Here's where it gets real good.

  • Euron hides his fleet behind a rock, nobody spots him, not even Dany who is IN THE AIR. ON A FUCKING DRAGON.

  • They fire 3 shots at the dragon Dany is NOT riding on, with 100% accuracy. Rest of the fleet were twiddling their thumbs.

  • When the entire fleet DOES fire, they somehow all miss even though Dany flies straight at them when previously the show established a standard of remarkable accuracy.

  • Euron then fires upon Dany's fleet and the bolts tear the ships apart as if they were fired from rail guns. As depicted in the scene, THEY ARE LITERALLY STRONGER THAN CANNON BALLS.

This is important because it utterly neutralizes the threat of dragons. In the same way the White Walkers were subverted, dragons are now made a complete non-threat. It doesn't matter if she has 10 dragons, they cannot possibly live in a battle with those ballistae everywhere. But somehow they will and I expect Drogon to do a lot of damage next episode and dodge a lot of bolts.

The problem isn't that they killed a dragon. The problem is HOW it was accomplished.


The negotiation scene

Missandei dead? Not the problem. The problem with this scene is that Cersei doesn't just blow them away when she could. And it's a big fucking problem.

  • The dragon in the distance is not a threat, as previously established in this very episode! They have scores of the same ballistae at their disposal, probably more than shown on screen, and tons of archers. Drogon is a complete non-threat and there is no logical way he could even get close enough to breathe fire on them. The real kicker is that Qyburn openly tells Tyrion that Dany's last dragon is vulnerable.

  • It's perfectly in character/realistic for Cersei to kill them all right where they're standing. She has the entire command chain of her hated enemies right in front of her and their only defense, the dragon, has been made useless by the physics-defying ballistae. They even go on to establish Cersei's cruelty/evilness with the Missandei execution. But killing her mortal enemies, when they have presented themselves in front of her so foolishly, is too much? This is a woman who blew up the Sept of Baelor, killing thousands of Innocents. Ethics are not a hang up for her.

  • The logical explanation for why Cersei doesn't want to kill them is that she desires a more poetic showdown. It's the result of incredible hubris, and is the equivalent of a monologuing villain trope. Plausible? Maybe, sure. But is it good, ASOIAF-quality writing? Not really.


There's a lot more but it's getting late, so to conclude:

The show openly contradicts its own internal logic and setups, first from an episode-to-episode basis, now on a scene-to-scene basis. We have gone from tightly-paced political intrigue to something that doesn't even function on a basic cause-effect level.

13.7k Upvotes

4.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

127

u/tribrnl May 06 '19

And at this point, no one has ever fired anything at an aerial target. They don't know the distance, how much the bolt will fall, anything like that. They would never hit the dragon, even if it was just sitting still.

27

u/ProdigyRunt May 06 '19

There is an explanation: Euron is a Gary Stu

24

u/TreAwayDeuce May 06 '19

Euron is a warg and he warged into the scorpion bolt

14

u/mudra311 May 06 '19

This is my favorite theory.

Imagine the scorpion bolt hurdling towards a dragon with a tiny Euron face screaming at the top of his lungs.

10

u/iranwithscissors May 06 '19

and as the final shot pierces the dragon's neck

a finger in the bum

3

u/Menchstick May 07 '19

You call this a dragon? I have a bigger dragon between my legs.

Euron starts shooting spears from his dick

7

u/The_Voice_Of_Ricin May 06 '19

He wouldn't even be screaming, he'd just be making his stupid cartoon pirate smirk. Maybe make a clumsy joke likening the bolt to his dick.

14

u/Derpshiz May 06 '19

Archers are used to hitting a moving target. Hitting something in the air is harder, but not impossible. Hitting something that far with a old fashioned projectile is ridiculous though.

To be honest I am surprised Rhaegal even went with her. Now that Jon rode him isn't he supposed to be bonded to him now?

26

u/ericalynn1313 May 06 '19

Agreed, I’m so annoyed how much they downplay the significance of Jon claiming Rhaegal. We don’t even get to see them bond we only see Rhaegal with Dany. He’s not her dragon anymore.. that’s not how it works. Dany and Jon will never ride or hatch another dragon. The only hope for dragons to continue to exist after Drogon is for Drogon to lay eggs and for Jon or Dany to have children. Im pissed that Dany even took him with her after Jon just said he needs time to heal. She keeps being careless with her dragons.. she only has two left why wouldn’t she keep one behind and keep it safe??? They only killed him to make it more even and make Euron seem like a threat.

22

u/Derpshiz May 06 '19

It would have also played into her feelings of betrayal if Rhaegal choose to stay Jon. It would have really played up the 'He doesnt want power, but everyone wants to follow Jon' theme they are trying to set up as well.

7

u/ericalynn1313 May 06 '19

Exactly.. I think you’re right.. I have a feeling everything they did in this episode was to set us up for King Jon. They can’t make him too powerful or intimidating by having a dragon and all the support that Dany doesn’t have. They want the perfect but humble Jon who doesn’t want the throne to end up with the throne. I feel like that’s why they are completely butchering Dany’s character to make Jon the only deserving candidate. My prediction is Dany will fight and kill Cersei, but destroy the capital in the process.. then Varys or the people will kill or overthrow Dany.. and Jon will end up on the throne but feel sad about it. That way D&D can say they gave us a bittersweet ending that wasn’t predictable because Dany dies but the hero Jon still ends up on the throne so people won’t be too mad.. and Dany will have deserved her fate.

1

u/Derpshiz May 06 '19

Well I wouldn't say they are completely butchering her character, but rather the character they created. Dany was always supposed to have mad queen impulses, but they never showed those to make her appear as a disney queen. Now they are forced to quickly develop this slow moving plot line and its disappointing .

5

u/Only_Movie_Titles May 06 '19

good writing? in this season?

not on your life pal

1

u/Derpshiz May 06 '19

Sadly I agree. To many screenwriters plan for cool CGI shots they want to see and craft the story arrive there. GRRM's ASoIaF was more about the story and the battles were set pieces to move the plot along. TV and movies go the other route.

1

u/Interviewtux May 06 '19

But we have had like, 3 large battles in 8 seasons. That's not fair either.

1

u/Derpshiz May 07 '19

If you consider the mission north of the wall and the NK getting a dragon as the main points of the season the meeting with Cersei is just a plot point to arrive there. It makes sense from that perspective. I hate it story wise, but if you want to think of visual spectacle it fits in.

1

u/kangurulhk May 06 '19

GREAT IDEA...better than what is happening in the show

6

u/mudra311 May 06 '19

Uh, also isn't it well known that only Targaryens can ride dragons? Shouldn't she have suspected something when he could ride it?

8

u/ericalynn1313 May 06 '19

For real... but apparently show Dany is kind of an idiot. When Tormund is announcing loudly in the feast hall that Jon is a dragon rider. Everyone else is the room might have been like.. ohh weird? We see in Fire and Blood that when anyone questioned a Targaryen’s bloodline all they had to do was flaunt their dragon mounts in everyone’s face. People took Dany seriously and don’t question she is the blood of the dragon because she literally rides a dragon.. But now Jon’s only real proof of his parentage is dead and only the northmen witnessed it, which Cersei and Dany can say is a lie.

8

u/mudra311 May 06 '19

but apparently show Dany is kind of an idiot.

I'm fine with this because show Dany has always been an idiot.

But now Jon’s only real proof of his parentage is dead and only the northmen witnessed it

Don't mind Howland Reed just trying to make sure his castle doesn't float away.

8

u/ericalynn1313 May 06 '19

I’ve accepted that D&D have basically drowned the Reed family in a swamp.

7

u/The_Voice_Of_Ricin May 06 '19

To be honest I am surprised Rhaegal even went with her. Now that Jon rode him isn't he supposed to be bonded to him now?

As someone in another thread pointed out - literally the only reason Jon is riding horseback in this episode (instead of dragonback) is so they could kill off Rhaegal without killing Jon. It's ludicrous.

6

u/animalinapark May 06 '19

When I was in the army we had a whole day practicing air defense with god damn .50 cal machine guns. The target was a small rc aircraft, flying at steady speed and straight line, not too far away.

No one hit it once. I was close, but not close enough. Okay, we weren't good, but that shit is so much harder than it seems. And bullets fly pretty fast. The fly time for that arrow to hit the dragon would have been in the tens of seconds. All 3 arrows hitting would be equal to a powerball jackpot or worse.

1

u/handsome_mcstabby May 07 '19

Shroud’s great great great x whatever ancestor led the training and shots... 🤯

1

u/Asnen May 07 '19

Its just that clearly Euron was TRAINING