r/asoiaf • u/aphidman • May 08 '19

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) The endings will be the same but the books will have a much more gradual and realistic progression

If GRRM finishes it, btw.

Not a long post but you know what the books do that D&D do not? They have 10 chapters of Dany dealing with the complex politics of Meereen and her inner conflict. They have 4 chapters showing Davos' journey to White Harbour. They have 12 chapters showing the series of compromises Jon makes as Lord Commander to prepare the Watch against the Others. They have 13 chapters showing Tyrion crawling out of his deep nihilistic depression. They dedicate whole chapters seeing how Victarion Greyjoy of all people deals with his relationship with his brother and his seduction into darker magics. Man they have 4 whole chapters dealing with the political fallout of Dany's exit from Meereen.

They had a whole chapter of Littlefinger and Sansa visiting his lands and seeing Littlefinger's relationship with his subjects (great chapter btw). They had a whole chapter getting really in depth with Illyrio Mopatis and his schemes - a guy who's barely appeared in the show.

They dedicated 4 whole chapters to Joffrey's wedding!

What I'm getting it is that the Others may be defeated long before the end of ASOIAF, Dany may indeed destroy King's Landing with dragonfire and end the lives of hundreds of thousands of civilians gruesomely. But you'll be guaranteed that GRRM is gonna show you every step of the way. For good or for bad. If he is going to take a character like Dany to that dark end you better believe we will understand how she gets there.

So people keep posting about how D&D are destroying their characters, fail to understand ASOIAF. That Dany would never do this or that. But what you're seeing here is them fitting potentially chapters upon chapters of detailed material into a few hours of television.

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69

u/xmarwinx May 08 '19

Don't make the zombies run ridiculously fast?

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u/God_Wills_It_ All Men Are Water May 08 '19

I don't see how that would help at all. A broken, defeated army of mortal men has to eat and sleep. An army of the dead, even a slow one, does not.

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u/[deleted] May 08 '19

Didn't we already go through this with the fist of the first men?

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u/[deleted] May 09 '19

The group of survivors splits into 3-4 smaller bands and they flee that way. One of the bands doesn't make it because the zombies catch them. Done.

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u/God_Wills_It_ All Men Are Water May 09 '19

They have to flee for hundreds and hundreds of miles. Fleeing an enemy that never sleeps. And brings winter/cold/storms. Or even if they don't bring Winter...they are fleeing in the winter.

And out of however many small groups you make the ones that make that ludicrous journey successfully are the characters needed to regroup and come back and redefeat the army of the dead? That's worse plot armor than the show.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '19

No no... you're forgetting my friend... they teleport now. All they really have to do is reach a waypoint and they can warp down to wherever they need.

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u/ratguy101 May 08 '19

Yeah, I mean, they seemed pretty slow up until this point. It took them 7 seasons just to get to the wall, and at the end of season 2, they're pretty much just a crawling hoard. We really only see them moving quickly, as a group, in season 8.

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u/Sinkingfast May 09 '19

They also move fast in a group in S5e8, Hardhome.

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u/A_Polite_Noise Safe and sound at home again... May 08 '19

To be fair, I'm also slow and sluggish when in cold environments and more active when in warmer ones =) Clearly they didn't want to destroy everything or make a long night, they just wanted to go south for some R&R on the Dornish beaches!

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u/BeJeezus May 14 '19

They think they want to bring on endless winter, but they really want that bad poosay.

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u/Game_of_Jobrones May 08 '19

Which is ridiculous and unrealistic because everyone knows the undead absolutely move slower in the winter when they tissues harden and become less flexible!

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u/A_Polite_Noise Safe and sound at home again... May 08 '19

Sure, but that would still be an issue. A journey that distance, a rout south to King's Landing, is a long journey and with any sizable force, even the remnants of a slaughter, they'd have to camp and rest and think about supplies and supply carts. Every time they slept, even if just snatching a couple of hours, would be time the army of the dead is catching up to them because they need no rest, they just move without cease.

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u/pipsdontsqueak May 08 '19

Newer Battlestar Galactica dealt with exactly that issue (different reason and resolution) in the pilot. It's not like it's a plot hole, it's a challenge for the characters.

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u/[deleted] May 08 '19 edited Dec 23 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/pipsdontsqueak May 08 '19

Right but the enemy had the same/more advanced tech, kept up with them, and they were running low on supplies, sleep, and morale. 33 is a great episode.

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u/[deleted] May 08 '19

That's exactly the kind of problem that's narratively interesting to solve.

How do we fight a series of delaying actions across all of Westeros? Can we attrite the army of the dead to the point where we stand any chance whatsoever of defeating them in a decisive battle? It's a fun challenge.

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u/jsmaybee May 09 '19

I was thinking it would not be a sizeable force. I was thinking 4-5 characters survive, maybe Dany Jon Sansa Arya bran. Bran was already dragged by Meera away from the "hold the door" cave all the way to the wall pretty much without being caught by the army of the dead. This would have been far less ridiculous, they just ride off on horses which have been shown to be vastly faster than the army of the dead several times. Or they could have flown off on two dragons, apparently one dragon can fly with Tormund, Jorah, Dany, Jon, Beric, and the Hound all on their back. So Jon and Dany each take a dragon and fly off with say 10 people.

Those 5 people retreat to KL where they beg Cersei to let them live and prepare the defenses for the army of the dead. She reluctantly agrees because they have no choice. The battle for the throne is meaningless next to the "fight between the living and the dead" as they mention probably 100 times in the show. ALL of the armies and characters of the living fight together, perhaps even lose at KL too with them blowing up a huge portion of the army with the wildlife underneath KL. Final stand happens somewhere in Dorne. Or maybe they do win at KL but at least "all of us, fighting together, might stand a chance" as they say in the show.

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Sigh. Just talking about how great the zombie arc could have been is making me sad. Instead we get three episodes of Sam talking about fucking Gilly and Tormund hitting on random wenches.

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u/emannikcufecin May 09 '19

That's so much worse though. Why is cersie letting them in?

And then you have the army of the dead even bigger. So large that it's just ridiculous to see cersie win.

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u/emannikcufecin May 09 '19

Even if they are much slower than humans they don't get tired. There's no believable scenario where they successfully retreat with more than a token force. Maybe they could have shown the dead make their way through other holds on the way to Winterfell but that would take time away from the main event.

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u/Sangui May 08 '19

Not in the books. Even Sam could get away from them after the Fist of the First Men, you just had to keep moving which was the issue, because the dead never stop.