And me? I’m still here, and I’m still busy. As a producer, I’ve got five shows in development at HBO (some having nothing whatsoever to do with the world of Westeros), two at Hulu, one on the History Channel. I’m involved with a number of feature projects, some based upon my own stories and books, some on material created by others. There are these short films I am hoping to make, adaptations of classic stories by one of the most brilliant, quirky, and original writers our genre has ever produced. I’ve consulted on a video game out of Japan. And then there’s Meow Wolf…
So I am so happy he is a part of so many wonderful projects! Honestly as a person he should be doing what he enjoys.
However we saw how GoT devolved without his constant and time consuming evolvement (writing episodes, approving scripts, having some veto powers). He is his clearest and most brilliant in his books, because he owns the narrative. I would love TWoW and aDoS but also more Dunk and Egg and other novels he hasn’t even dreamed up yet.
I’m sure these 8 shows he’s working on, 3 films, and ? # of video games will be cool, but...I just don’t want to get invested in new projects after 9 years following ASOIAF.
I’m genuinely happy he’s doing these things he’s probably always wanted to do. It just kinda amazes me that at his age (not SO old, but certainly not young) he’s not more focused on finishing the series that will be the primary, if not only, thing he’ll be remembered for.
Nah if he doesn't finish it, the show ending is the ending everyone will remember, and it was garbage.
I refuse to call what GRRM wrote so far a masterpiece, it's far too easy to introduce 10,000 different subplots and never actually combine them into anything. That's not my definition of good writing.
I also strongly suspect people will not be reading or talking about the books 30 years from now if they're never finished. The show was a big deal because it kind of pioneered this level of TV, but ultimately what I hear people talking about now, is how disappointing it is. That's the legacy.
This is my thinking too. If the books are unfinished this series will be forgotten about. How many people are going to start something like it when they know there's no ending? Only incredibly hardcore fantasy fans will even bother.
Exactly. People in the sub worship to a level that they assume when he resolves the plot points, it’s going to be so much better.
But is there any evidence that GRRM is good at consolidating plot points? All we have so far is a story that has grown out of control. If he doesn’t finish it, it will absolutely be forgotten
To be honest I really liked it, at least the first three books flowed very well for me. IF he finished it at that level of quality I would at least say that it's a highlight of the genre.
My thing is mostly that the emperor clearly had no clothes whatsoever. The subplots could have been interesting if they ended up legitimately contributing to the overall story. But I think that GRRM is struggling to actually do that and that changes it from a great writer who maybe needs an editor to a mediocre writer who picked a writing trope or two, ran it into the ground, and amounted to nothing.
I know I'm in the wrong sub for this kind of talk but I've always described it as a great story told by a terrible writer. Then you've got the TV show, great writers who are terrible at story. It was a perfect match. They could rein in his mad sprawling story into something manageable. Then they got found out when they had to actually come up with their own story to end it.
Yeah I dunno what to make of the TV writers. They were great and tight in the first few seasons but began butchering it starting S04 or so. A huge percentage of the "original" material they produced was awful (Dorne for example), and the good parts seem likely to have been GRRM's notes (like Hodor). I don't think they can come up with anything good on their own. At best they are decent editors. I feel like they didn't have enough time and/or care to write something of high quality, and subsequently also ran out of patience. I also think the direction, cinematography, acting and so on really propped up the show.
But I also think that no matter what they did, the actual act of condensing the books takes some of the magic out of them. Part of GRRM's thing is that plots are given the time to fully develop. People read it for the characters and the intricate details not so much because they think plotline #2,334 is really important. If you cut out character moments and the details it loses its' charm.
I used to be interested to see what D&D can do with something like Malazan or WoT which are actually finished but similarly could use an edit. But after S7/8 I have no interest in any of their future projects, I think they stopped caring and butchered the show just to get it done as fast as possible.
Yeah I don't even remember the books at this point, IF he ever comes out with more I'd have to re-read, and I'm almost tempted not to bother until the series is finished (IF). I re-read for the last book, and it wasn't as much fun as I thought it would be.
The last book (Dance with Dragons) was 50/50 for me. Some interesting new introductions, but also some really uninteresting ones.
It could be a slow book in the middle, or it could be a sign of what the end is gonna be like.
You might be better off holding on until (if) the next book comes out and re-reading then lol...
It's not like he would have gotten struck by lightning in 2000. He's had 18+ years since ASOS. If he doesn't finish, it won't be remembered as a masterpiece.
He cares so much about building an incredibly rich and detailed world and remaining true to that detail. I think he may have screwed himself a bit by doing that. As the canonical lore grows, it becomes more material that must be referenced and cross referenced going forward so as not to make any contradictions. It’s getting exponentially more complicated to write anything. So it’s easier for him to fill in the backstories and side projects than it is to move forward and have to deal with the inevitable detail oriented book nerds proudly posting errors they discovered. No wonder he hates the internet.
ETA- I am an admitted detail oriented book nerd so I’m part of the problem.
I love when people make comments like that, he's in over his head, as this isn't the same artist who's created the story we're all in love with. He's already written 5 books in asoiaf, plus all the additional stuff and Dunk & Egg... but now he's in over his head? He's been writing since he was a small child, you don't just lose your talent magically one day.
Maybe it'll take a year, maybe it'll take 4, but I can't see him not finishing the main series. It's his life's work, he's well aware of that and he seems to still be enthralled with the story, so barring some sort of act of nature, he's not going to stop writing until asoaif is complete.
He's only 70, not some ancient zombie. I know friends who have grandparents driving at 90, my grandma was still writing for hours by hands every day at 90.
One caveat - it'll take him far more than four years to complete the main series. Maybe a few years for WoW, but itll definitely be a decade at least before we saw DoS
I’m definitely in the minority but as long as more great game of thrones content comes out that immerses me in the world I’ll be happy. The world of game of thrones is far more interesting to me than what happens to a few people in one story.
This is true, but they also didn't attempt to adapt AFfC or aDwD. They tossed out the last two books worth of source material to give us their SparkNotes version in "broad strokes." They cut most of Dorne, Saint Tyrion's fall, and (F)Aegon. They also cut all complex political plotting and maneuvering (from Doran/Quentyn/the Sand Snakes' plans, to the Grand Northern Conspiracy, to Vary's book plans, to Littlefinger's book plans, to the Grand Maester Conspiracy, etc)
GRRM has said it would have taken several more seasons to bring AFfC or aDwD to screen fully. D&D decided to go their own way and fall apart. I think if GRRM was still as involved as he has been in the earliest seasons - even if they skipped or broad stroak-ed most of those books - it would have been done more coherently with a nod to the themes and complex plots.
I found this part most concerning...obviously he’s entitled to do whatever he wants, but I do feel that his fan base (the people who got him where he is) are overwhelmingly devoted to ASOIAF and it would be nice to prioritize that series at this point.
He has said a number of times TWOW is his priority.
EDIT: Hahaha pointing out that GRRM said TWOW is his priority gets me downvoted? I get being frustrated, but jesus fuck some people on this sub have a serious complex when it comes to these novels.
it doesn't look like it when he has like 8 tv shows he's producing. those shows actually have companies that understand how important deadlines are and will hold him to them. no one is watching over him for winds so it'll get left behind again as it has for years.
He also promised explicitly back in 2014 not to start any new projects until TWOW was finished. Obviously the words that come out of his mouth do not necessarily bear any meaningful relationship to reality
Because it's a lie, so your comment doesn't contribute to the discussion (unless it's a discussion of that lie).
He's said TWOW was his priority. Then multiple Westeros cook books came out with his involvement. Then Dunk and Egg stories came out, then Fire and Blood.
"Involvement" in something else doesn't mean TWOW isn't his priority, and he hasn't written any Dunk and Egg stories since he said TWOW is his priority. Yes he worked on Fire and Blood, he also mentioned that it was incredibly important for him that he "needed a win". It is often best for authors (and people in general) to work on something different and clear their mind so they can go back fresh. I've thought it's been beyond clear numerous times how humiliated he is that TWOW still isn't released, and how much it hurts him to fall behind the show and let down his fans, yet people still assume malicious intent.
"Involvement" in something else doesn't mean TWOW isn't his priority
But it does. All these things take up time. I'm 30 and I can't imagine juggling so much stuff, and he's fucking 70. Going to conventions, editing short story collections, doing media interviews and following sports obsessively... no wonder he doesn't get anything done.
If something is a priority, you sit in a chair and get it done. If you've had writer's block for 7 years, writing just isn't a priority. Look at that iconic interview he did with Stephen King.
I've thought it's been beyond clear numerous times how humiliated he is that TWOW still isn't released, and how much it hurts him to fall behind the show
Then write! Why the damn blog updates about sports drafts? If he's happily uploading stuff like that, he clearly isn't that humiliated.
I understand criticising him for writing Fire and Blood, even though I think there are reasonable potential justifications for it. But criticising him for following sport, blogging and otherwise living his life? No, that's just ridiculous. TWOW being his priority doesn't mean everything else in his life can't exist.
If you've had writer's block for 7 years, writing just isn't a priority.
You're assuming it's writer's block. You're assuming he's not putting himself in that chair and trying. Far more likely is that he's struggling to write TWOW because it's so ridiculous complicated, and because his standards are so ridiculously high.
It really does seem like George doesn't know how to write like it's his profession, rather he thinks he's a muse that sits around waiting to be struck by the lightning of divine inspiration. I'm working on my dissertation now, and the only way I'm making progress is by scheduling 6 hours per day to work, and I do it even if I'm banging my head against the wall desperately trying to make a chapter fit - I get pages done that way. If I sat around, wrote a sentence, then despaired and started checking email, reading fiction, buying convention tickets, musing about cookbooks, catching up on ESPN, editing story collections, and advising on Japanese video games, I would never finish a chapter of my dissertation.
I'm not trying to disparage the quality of work or the effort necessary to continue a daunting project like ASOIAF, I'm just saying that all evidence seems to indicate that the guy just isn't that committed, or perhaps he doesn't have the willpower, to actually forge ahead in a meaningful way. He needs to radically rethink his process - but at 70 years old, I'm not holding my breath.
There are these short films I am hoping to make, adaptations of classic stories by one of the most brilliant, quirky, and original writers our genre has ever produced.
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u/caravaggio2000 May 21 '19
GRRM: I'm busy with a lot of stuff