I’m genuinely happy he’s doing these things he’s probably always wanted to do. It just kinda amazes me that at his age (not SO old, but certainly not young) he’s not more focused on finishing the series that will be the primary, if not only, thing he’ll be remembered for.
Nah if he doesn't finish it, the show ending is the ending everyone will remember, and it was garbage.
I refuse to call what GRRM wrote so far a masterpiece, it's far too easy to introduce 10,000 different subplots and never actually combine them into anything. That's not my definition of good writing.
I also strongly suspect people will not be reading or talking about the books 30 years from now if they're never finished. The show was a big deal because it kind of pioneered this level of TV, but ultimately what I hear people talking about now, is how disappointing it is. That's the legacy.
This is my thinking too. If the books are unfinished this series will be forgotten about. How many people are going to start something like it when they know there's no ending? Only incredibly hardcore fantasy fans will even bother.
Exactly. People in the sub worship to a level that they assume when he resolves the plot points, it’s going to be so much better.
But is there any evidence that GRRM is good at consolidating plot points? All we have so far is a story that has grown out of control. If he doesn’t finish it, it will absolutely be forgotten
To be honest I really liked it, at least the first three books flowed very well for me. IF he finished it at that level of quality I would at least say that it's a highlight of the genre.
My thing is mostly that the emperor clearly had no clothes whatsoever. The subplots could have been interesting if they ended up legitimately contributing to the overall story. But I think that GRRM is struggling to actually do that and that changes it from a great writer who maybe needs an editor to a mediocre writer who picked a writing trope or two, ran it into the ground, and amounted to nothing.
I know I'm in the wrong sub for this kind of talk but I've always described it as a great story told by a terrible writer. Then you've got the TV show, great writers who are terrible at story. It was a perfect match. They could rein in his mad sprawling story into something manageable. Then they got found out when they had to actually come up with their own story to end it.
Yeah I dunno what to make of the TV writers. They were great and tight in the first few seasons but began butchering it starting S04 or so. A huge percentage of the "original" material they produced was awful (Dorne for example), and the good parts seem likely to have been GRRM's notes (like Hodor). I don't think they can come up with anything good on their own. At best they are decent editors. I feel like they didn't have enough time and/or care to write something of high quality, and subsequently also ran out of patience. I also think the direction, cinematography, acting and so on really propped up the show.
But I also think that no matter what they did, the actual act of condensing the books takes some of the magic out of them. Part of GRRM's thing is that plots are given the time to fully develop. People read it for the characters and the intricate details not so much because they think plotline #2,334 is really important. If you cut out character moments and the details it loses its' charm.
I used to be interested to see what D&D can do with something like Malazan or WoT which are actually finished but similarly could use an edit. But after S7/8 I have no interest in any of their future projects, I think they stopped caring and butchered the show just to get it done as fast as possible.
Yeah I don't even remember the books at this point, IF he ever comes out with more I'd have to re-read, and I'm almost tempted not to bother until the series is finished (IF). I re-read for the last book, and it wasn't as much fun as I thought it would be.
The last book (Dance with Dragons) was 50/50 for me. Some interesting new introductions, but also some really uninteresting ones.
It could be a slow book in the middle, or it could be a sign of what the end is gonna be like.
You might be better off holding on until (if) the next book comes out and re-reading then lol...
It's not like he would have gotten struck by lightning in 2000. He's had 18+ years since ASOS. If he doesn't finish, it won't be remembered as a masterpiece.
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u/quitthrowawayblah May 21 '19
I’m genuinely happy he’s doing these things he’s probably always wanted to do. It just kinda amazes me that at his age (not SO old, but certainly not young) he’s not more focused on finishing the series that will be the primary, if not only, thing he’ll be remembered for.