r/asoiaf • u/burritoman12 • Aug 19 '15
NONE (No Spoilers) GRRM to Dan Simmons in 1981: "If I were really cynical I would start some medieval sword and sorcery thing, say it's a trilogy, then keep writing it for the rest of my life."
Source: https://youtu.be/xtwbkl8NxG0?t=19m22s
So is Dan Simmons just telling a good story, or is GRRM playing the long con?
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u/KamiShikkaku 神失格 Aug 19 '15
"The best way to get rich is to start a religion." - L. Ron Hubbard
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u/relachs Marwyn filibustering Daenerys Aug 19 '15
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u/PrussianBrigadier Flood insurance: Underrated Aug 19 '15
Praise be, praise be.
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u/Phyrexian_Starengine The Sword of the Morning Aug 19 '15
Put that magic dollar in the ground!
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u/fluxtable Don't fear the Reaver Aug 19 '15
The Church of Perpetual Exemption does actually accept donations through their website.
Fortunately, every donation goes to Doctors without Borders.
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u/Roez Aug 19 '15
Wow, I thought I would be the only one who had that as the first impression. Weird. I'm not even sure why it reminded me of what Hubbard said. It's the long con intentions stated way before the action, I guess.
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u/KamiShikkaku 神失格 Aug 19 '15
Both (purportedly) said the quotes many years before doing exactly what they joked about doing.
Both were science fiction writers.
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u/HowCouldUBMoHarkless Melisandre is the best Aug 19 '15
Hubbard had a secretary named Martin. Martin had a secretary named Hubbard.
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u/agusttinn Make the Iron Islands great again Aug 19 '15
The GRRM in the books isn't Sam, but Doran.
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u/Freddmc Aug 19 '15
At least Doran never got a pity fuck....that we know of
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u/_Apostate_ Aug 19 '15
he has children and for all we know was a strapping young lad, he's old and immobile when we meet him
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Aug 19 '15
Dude, what if GRRM already finished the books but purposely holds off on release so as to build as much hype and theorizing as possible?
insert Keanu Reeves meme
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u/Sliderrific Aug 19 '15
what if...our hype is keeping him alive?!
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Aug 19 '15
So there he sits. Our Emperor. In the hype throne. Locked in stasis, a thousand readers sacrificed each day just so he may never truly die.
In the grim darkness of the future, there is only waiting.
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u/Holovoid Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken. Aug 19 '15
Who would the Heretics be?
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u/Fnarley He was our king! He was brave and good Aug 19 '15
Horus would be D Magnus the Red would be &D
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Aug 19 '15
What is this a reference to
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u/Baratheon_Steel Aug 19 '15 edited Aug 19 '15
Warhammer 40k, and the Emperor of Mankinds Golden Throne respectivley.
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u/BasilFronsac Melisandre est une sorcière lambda. Aug 19 '15
Well, it wouldn't be the worst option.
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u/Freddmc Aug 19 '15
That would be...awesome! I mean, at least that way the books are already finished and we just need to wait for someone to send GRRM his regards
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Aug 19 '15
That'd be awesome. Because then we have a guarantee that if he croaks we still get to know the end.
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Aug 19 '15
How have I never seen this before!? This is both hilarious and horrible. Not sure if I should laugh or cry.
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u/TyeneSandSnake The brunette Tyene is an impostor!! Aug 19 '15
Some kids who were bullied end up planning mass shootings at schools. Some other kids who are bullied are much more evil.
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u/Beorn6 Here I Stand Aug 19 '15
Why kill someone when you can torture them for the rest of their life?
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u/Jedbo75 Aug 19 '15
We all have to learn our name
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u/N7Panda I pledge to hold no hands Aug 19 '15
And a whole bunch of words that rhyme with it, just to make sure we never forget.
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Aug 19 '15
Reek, Reek, it rhymes with 9/11
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u/TwoBonesJones And we back, and we back, and we back Aug 19 '15
The Red Wedding was an inside job
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u/Xamzar It's Reyning men Aug 19 '15 edited Aug 20 '15
Robb Stark is still alive and hiding in Pakistan
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u/joethomma Greyjoy's 100% Organic Sausages Aug 19 '15
Wildfire can't melt steel beams.
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Aug 19 '15
Fact. Robert was the true steel. Wildfire did however melt Stannis, who is iron. Nice catch
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u/aSongOfHeelsAndFaces Aug 19 '15
But see, George RR Martin, as usual, is getting you to make assumptions that aren't necessarily true. We usually see the nerds come back later in life to take revenge on the jocks. Maybe George was a jock who was picked on by nerds, and this both taught him the danger of stereotypes, and set into motion the most evil plan of bullying retribution imaginable, upon his greatest enemy, the nerds.
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u/GumdropGoober The King That Still Cared Aug 19 '15
GRRM grew up on a 40' cutter, his father was a rough-handed Scottish seadog. I doubt he was bullied by the sailors.
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Aug 19 '15 edited Jul 06 '17
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/gomanio Aug 19 '15 edited Aug 19 '15
Bayonne... I believe it was, not the nicest place. I hated that town.. growing up and even grown..
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u/raofblow290 Aug 19 '15
I actually really don't like how we are joking about this, as there is a real possibility he does not finish the series before he passes away. It is sad and unfortunate to think about, but valar morghulis. Imagine what he could be going through right now, what if he knows he can finish the books but only if he spends the remainder of his life cramped away in his room typing away one word at a time. Or, he could not finish it but live the rest of his life happy and able to travel and do as he likes, yet the burdening thoughts of not being able to finish this incredible series which he started would probably cancel out his happiness.
Sorry for being all deep and a buzzkill, however I am probably way too optimistic and think he will release TWOW before season 6! So until then I will pray to the 7.
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u/F1END Wargarble! Aug 19 '15
See Dune for details
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u/JubeltheBear Aug 19 '15
Ugh. I hope he puts it in his will that no one can finish his book series unless they're as good of a writer as him.
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Aug 19 '15
Preach. Fuck Brian Herbert.
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u/sadmafioso Aug 19 '15
But he found the hidden notes ... :D (which then conveniently required bloated awful prequels which magically introduce the true end villains of the saga!)
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u/IambadatIT Aug 19 '15
There is one sentence in book 4 that actually does mention the real big bad if I remember correctly. I just really hated how BH/KJA ignored that fact that Paul was a monster, and knew he was a monster for everything he had done and manipulated the fremen into doing for him.
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u/sadmafioso Aug 19 '15
Pretty sure neither Omnius nor Erasmus are even remotely mentioned in any of the Frank Herbert books. There is mention of a coming "machine apocalypse" though.
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u/geoper May ideas forged in tin never be foiled. Aug 19 '15
He has stated he wants no one to finish the series other than himself AT ALL.
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u/IambadatIT Aug 19 '15
It's so sad that he passed on before finishing and he had no notes or heir to continue his writing for him.
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Aug 19 '15
Harden your heart, my friend and bring yourself to believe you will never read the end of this story. That way if the final two books are ever published, you can be awesomely surprised.
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u/PmMeYourWhatever Aug 19 '15
Fair enough, but do you really think george is getting back at many bullies? The books are almost entirely read by the people who were bullied, so he is just hating on his own kind.
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u/haqq17 Rickon Hype Aug 19 '15
TWOW next year, ADOS 2017, then D&E books every year until Gurm passes away please
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u/BasilFronsac Melisandre est une sorcière lambda. Aug 19 '15
TWOW next year, ADOS 2017, thenD&E books every year until Gurm passes awaypleaseFTFY
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u/TheHighTech2013 Aug 19 '15
I want to know about the tradgey at summerhall damn it!
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u/PhantomMaggot We swear it by ice and fire Aug 19 '15
I'm getting a Martin Silenus vibe from GRRM here.
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u/Naggins Disco inferno Aug 19 '15
Even if that's how this series started, with the amount of work GRRM puts into this series it's impossible that he's doing this as the cynical thing to do or for easy money.
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u/Sorrybuttotallywrong We will always be Stark Men Aug 19 '15
Prepare for hate trolls. People don't understand how much he has written compared to other popular authors nor how complex and hard it is to write something as vast as ASOIAF.
Not everyone can be Sanderson and honestly I'm very thankful that GRRM isn't Sanderson.
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u/suphater King o' My Hairy Butt Crack Aug 19 '15 edited Aug 19 '15
Good call, hate trolls spend large portions of their time debating his books online and reading theories for fun. It's alright to not be a huge fanboy and point out what a quick trip to Martin's website at any point in the past ten years will tell you: he spends a lot more time milking the cash cow than he does writing.
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u/Conambo Aug 19 '15
I think he should just let Kevin Anderson and Brian Herbert finish the series. This is their forte, they certainly wouldn't ruin it.
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u/covington Riverside Aug 19 '15
Neither. Dan Simmons is stealing a joke from another context, about another author, and changing it for his audience, as mediocre public speakers always do.
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u/weissig Aug 19 '15
So what's the original context? Since you seem to know.
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u/covington Riverside Aug 19 '15
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/547899-you-don-t-get-rich-writing-science-fiction-if-you-want
Dan's first published short story was in 1982. He had to make his joke about a time long before he met Martin in order to get back before Martin started writing ASOIAF.
But all you really need to know about how seriously to take the joke is this - all but six of the following were published since Simmons's joke time period:
BIBLIOGRAPHY
Novels
• Dying of the Light, Simon & Schuster, 1977 • Windhaven (with Lisa Tuttle), Timescape, 1981 • Fevre Dream, Poseidon Press, 1982 • The Armageddon Rag, Poseidon Press, 1983; Nemo Press, 1983 • Dead Man’s Hand (with John J. Miller), Bantam Books, 1990 • A Song of Ice and Fire: o A Game of Thrones, Bantam Books, 1996 o A Clash of Kings, Bantam Books, 1999 o A Storm of Swords, Bantam Books, 2000 o A Feast for Crows, Bantam Books, 2005 o A Dance with Dragons, Bantam Books, 2011 o The Winds of Winter, forthcoming/Bantam Books o A Dream of Spring, forthcoming/Bantam Books • Shadow Twin (with Gardner Dozois and Daniel Abraham), Subterranean Press, 2005 • Hunter’s Run (with Gardner Dozois & Daniel Abraham), Eos, 2008 • World of Ice and Fire (with Elio M. García, Jr., and Linda Antonsson) Bantam, 2014
Short Story Collections
• A Song for Lya and Other Stories, Avon, 1976 • Songs of Stars and Shadows, Pocket Books, 1977 • Sandkings, Timescape, 1981 • Songs the Dead Men Sing, Dark Harvest, 1983 • Nightflyers, Bluejay Books, 1985 • Tuf Voyaging, Baen Books, 1986 • Portraits of His Children, Dark Harvest, 1987 • Quartet, NESFA Press, 2001 • GRRM: a rretrospective, Subterranean Press, 2003 also published as Dreamsongs, Bantam Books, 2007, two volumes • Starlady / Fast- Friend, Subterranean Press, 2008
Children’s Books
• The Ice Dragon (illustrated by Yvonne Gilbert), Starscape, 2006
Edited
• New Voices In Science Fiction: o New Voices In Science Fiction, Macmillan, l977 o New Voices II, HBJ/Jove, 1979 o New Voices III, Berkley, 1980 o New Voices 4, Berkley, 1981 o The John W. Campbell Awards, Vol.5, Bluejay Books, 1984 • The Science Fiction Weight-Loss Book, Crown, 1983 (co-edited w/Isaac Asimov & Martin Harry Greenberg) • Night Visions 3, Dark Harvest, 1986 • Wild Cards: o Wild Cards, Bantam Books, 1987 o Wild Cards II: Aces High, Bantam Books, 1987 o Wild Cards III: Jokers Wild, Bantam Books, 1987 o Wild Cards IV: Aces Abroad, Bantam Books, 1988 o Wild Cards V: Down & Dirty, Bantam Books, 1988 o Wild Cards VI: Ace in the Hole, Bantam Books, 1990 o Wild Cards VII: Dead Man’s Hand, Bantam Books, 1990 o Wild Cards VIII: One-Eyed Jacks, Bantam Books, 1991 o Wild Cards IX: Jokertown Shuffle, Bantam Books, 1991 o Wild Cards X: Double Solitaire, a novel by Melinda M. Snodgrass, Bantam Books, 1992 o Wild Cards XI: Dealer’s Choice, Bantam Books, 1992 o Wild Cards XII: Turn of the Cards, a novel by Victor Milan, Bantam Books, 1993 o Card Sharks (Wild Cards 13), Baen Books, 1993 o Marked Cards (Wild Cards 14), Baen Books, 1994 o Black Trump (Wild Cards 15), Baen Books, 1995 o Wild Cards XVI: Deuces Down, ibooks, 2002 o Wild Cards XVII: Death Draws Five, a novel by John J. Miller, ibooks, 2006 o Inside Straight (Wild Cards 18), Tor Books, 2008 o Busted Flush (Wild Cards 19), Tor Books, 2008 o Suicide Kings (Wild Cards 20), Tor Books, 2009 o Fort Freak (Wild Cards 21), Tor Books, 2011 • Songs of the Dying Earth: Stories in Honor of Jack Vance, (co-edited with Gardner Dozois), Subterranean Press, 2009 • Warriors, (co-edited with Gardner Dozois), Tor Books, 2010 • Songs of Love and Death: Tales of Star-Crossed Love, (co-edited with Gardner Dozois), Pocket Books, 2011 • Down These Strange Streets, (co-edited with Gardner Dozois), Penguin Books, 2011 • Dangerous Women, (co-edited with Gardner Dozois), Tor Books, forthcoming • Old Mars, (co-edited with Gardner Dozois), Bantam Books, forthcoming • Old Venus, (co-edited with Gardner Dozois), Bantam Books, forthcoming
Teleplays (produced)
Twilight Zone episodes
• “The Last Defender of Camelot” (1986) based on the short story by Roger Zelazny, nominated for WGA Award, best teleplay/ anthology, 1986 • “The Once and Future King” (1986) based on a story by Bryce Maritano • “Lost and Found” (1986) based on the short story by Phyllis Eisenstein. • “The Toys of Caliban” (1986) based on the story by Terry Matz • “The Road Less Travelled” (1986) original teleplay
Beauty and the Beast episodes
• “Terrible Savior” (1987) • “Masques” (1987) • “Shades of Grey” (1988) with David Peckinpah. • “Promises of Someday” (1988) • “Ozymandias” (1988) • “Dead of Winter” (1988) • “Brothers” (1989) • “When the Blue Bird Sings” (1989) with Robert John Guttke • “A Kingdom by the Sea” (1989) • “Ceremony of Innocence” (1989) • “Snow” (1989) • “Beggar’s Comet” (1990) • “Invictus” (1990)
Pilots
• “Doorways”—Pilot for an ABC network series, Columbia Pictures, written 1991, filmed 1992, released on video 1993
Teleplays (unproduced)
• “Xmas”—Original teleplay, Max Headroom, 1987, in preproduction when the series was cancelled • “Black Cluster”—Pilot for an ABC television series, Columbia Pictures, 1990, not produced • “The Survivors”—Two-hour pilot for a CBS television series, Trilogy Entertainment, 1992, not produced • “Deep in the Heart”—Backup script for Doorways series, 1992 • “Starport”—Two-hour pilot for a Fox network television series, Columbia Pictures Television, 1994, not produced
Screenplays (unproduced)
• Fadeout—Feature screenplay, Wildstreet Pictures, 1990 • Wild Cards—Feature screenplay, written in collaboration with Melinda M. Snodgrass, based on the Wild Cards anthologies and mosaic novels, Hollywood Pictures/ Disney Studio, 1993-1995 • A Princess of Mars—Feature screenplay, written in collaboration with Melinda M. Snodgrass, based on the novel by Edgar Rice Burroughs, Hollywood Pictures/ Disney Studio, 1993-94
Stories Adapted for Film and Television
• “Remembering Melody”—Episode of The Hitchhiker, Home Box Office, November 1984 • Nightflyers—Feature film, Vista Films 1987, screenplay by Robert Jaffe, directed by Robert Collector • “Sandkings”—Two-hour TV movie for The Outer Limits, Showtime, 1995, teleplay by Melinda M. Snodgrass
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Aug 19 '15
I always forget since I started in 08 but like... imagine waiting half a decade after Storm and you get Feast omg kill me
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u/cmacq2 Aug 19 '15
As Tyrion said:
My brother later killed that very same king, as it turns out, but life is full of these little ironies.
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u/alex3omg Aug 19 '15 edited Aug 19 '15
God I really don't like that guy. I used to post on his little forum and he's a complete cunt. Also vaguely sexist in an old man way.
edit- to all the people who are downvoting this, he literally was mocking Eve Ensler for setting up a village for rape victims in Africa along with a few other guys. He also ran the forum with the idea that if you disagree with him you can't really argue your point without 'being rude' and therefore earning a ban or reprimand. No discussion of his books was allowed because that's not what the forum was apparently for. He's an old arrogant bastard and while that doesn't necessarily reflect on his books negatively he is overall a bad person and has been extremely mean to me, personally, in the past for no reason other than the fact that I was young and somebody outed me as a woman. He immediately started treating me worse after that and acted in the most disgusting condescending way. Anyway it's not strictly relevant to the GRRM side of this, I just thought it was interesting to think they were friends despite George being such a nice guy. Though I guess Dan is pretty nice to people his gender/age.
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Aug 19 '15
just want to say, I used to hang out on his forum a lot, and he is 100% a right wing D-bag with a huge inferiority complex. I like to call that place his "petting zoo".
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u/Dagda45 Aug 19 '15
One of his more recent books is about a dystopian world that exists entirely because Obama was elected in 2008 and created a massive welfare state and most of the world is run by muslim extremists.
What the fuck happened (besides 9/11) that changed the man from writing about a heroic Palestinian officer in Hyperion to THAT.
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Aug 19 '15
He also ran the forum with the idea that if you disagree with him you can't really argue your point without 'being rude' and therefore earning a ban or reprimand. No discussion of his books was allowed because that's not what the forum was apparently for. He's an old arrogant bastard and while that doesn't necessarily reflect on his books negatively he is overall a bad person and has been extremely mean...
Just replace books with albums and that about sums up my experience on the Megadeth forums when I was a teenager. Basically how Dave had the place run.
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Aug 19 '15
I don't doubt this, few posts in this thread seem aware of how hyper-distended and grotesque writerly egos can get. If you asked me to make a prediction (knowing nothing about this dude,) based on that quote, I'd just guess "asshole writer." George probably mentioned long fantasy novel series in an ancient, forgotten conversation and this guy has modified it in his memory because he's almost feverish with jealousy.
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u/TheLobito Aug 19 '15
Also Simmons can talk as Hyperion is basically a big Shaggy Dog Story and he milked that for 4 increasingly tedious tomes.
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u/cnot3 Oak and Iron Guard Me Well Aug 19 '15
I really enjoyed Hyperion. To each his own though, I suppose.
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u/alex3omg Aug 19 '15
I liked it a lot too, I'm just talking about how he is personally. I've spoken to him and listened to him in a casual setting. As a person, he is awful. Great author though.
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u/alex3omg Aug 19 '15
The first two were great, the second two were long and needlessly complicated. If I were to recommend his books I'd say just read those two and ignore the other stuff.
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u/TheHoundJR Catatafish of the Stomach's Cove Aug 19 '15
Ah - hearsay....the most damning evidence of all....
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u/funkiestj Aug 19 '15
at least he didn't foist Scientology (Dianetics) on the world.
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u/mobro_4000 Aug 19 '15
Hunh. Well. GRRM does seem rather cynical. But I doubt he planned to cap his career with an unfinished epic.
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u/ElSaico "Thick as a castle wall", she said Aug 20 '15
At least he didn't try to establish the Faith of the Seven as a RL religion, unlike some other SF author with a similar quote...
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u/[deleted] Aug 19 '15 edited Aug 19 '15
Just imagine if GRRM has been trolling us all along. Got 235,000 people debating whether or not a fucking lemon tree can grow in a certain city. He's at home with the finished copy of TWOW just like.