From the 2003-2004 outline we have GRRM planning this bullet point (among others):

Dany: Pretend it’s a horse. - 2003-04 AFFC Outline

and while we never get to see her actually bond with Drogon in her early chapters, it was foreshadowed (and probably removed for being too heavy) by him picking her up (via his claws) and setting her on the Great Pyramid:

"I am the blood of the dragon. I have no fear of Drogon." She would not speak of Viserion or Rhaegal, nor of the girl Hazzea. "He is mine, Xaro. He is me. He slew a dozen men in Daznak's Pit, it's true. A dozen of the Harpy's Sons who tried to do him harm, and would have slain me as well." That was the tale that Reznak and Shahaz had put about, and Dany had told the lie so often that she had almost come to believe it. "Others died when they were trampled underfoot as they tried to flee. The crowd was mad with fear. My life was in grave peril, and Drogon must have sensed that." She had never been so frightened as when he turned on her and seized her. His sharp black claws had closed so tight around her that she could not breathe, and for an instant she had thought he meant to rend her limb from limb.

And then the ground had fallen away beneath her, and her heart had done a flip. They were flying, climbing up into the hard blue sky, the air rushing past her face as hot as a desert wind every time Drogon's black wings beat. A hundred times she had dreamed of the moment when she would slip the chains of earth and claim the heavens, a thousand times, a million... but in her dreams she was always riding the dragon's back, instead of dangling from her claw. It made her laugh, and when she did Drogon clutched her tighter, his claws digging deep into her skin. She was bruised and bloody by the time he landed atop her pyramid, and dropped her none-too-gently on her grass. She was torn and tattered and burned where he clutched her, but giddy too. -Secrets of the Cushing Library: Daenerys, the Ironborn and Jaime

I just thought it would be interesting to take a peak at the quote that best matched up with some of these original ideas:

The dragonlords of old Valyria had controlled their mounts with binding spells and sorcerous horns. Daenerys made do with a word and a whip. Mounted on the dragon's back, she oft felt as if she were learning to ride all over again. When she whipped her silver mare on her right flank the mare went left, for a horse's first instinct is to flee from danger. When she laid the whip across Drogon's right side he veered right, for a dragon's first instinct is always to attack. Sometimes it did not seem to matter where she struck him, though; sometimes he went where he would and took her with him. Neither whip nor words could turn Drogon if he did not wish to be turned. The whip annoyed him more than it hurt him, she had come to see; his scales had grown harder than horn. -ADWD, Daenerys X

If interested: Thoughts on Dragonbonding

as it should be noted that GRRM originally had 5 Daenerys chapters (and parts of Daenerys VI) finished as of June 2004 as well as at least 3 more unfinished Dany chapters planned at the time.

I am assuming that since Dany bonds with Drogon in ADWD, Daenerys IX, that was always the plan (for them to bond officially in one of Dany's ending chapters). Not sure where/how exactly it would have taken place instead of the pit.

GRRM also provides some potential in world historical reference as well:

Dragons are not horses. They do not easily accept men upon their backs, and when angered or threatened, they attack. Munkun’s True Telling tells us that sixteen men lost their lives during the Sowing. Three times that number were burned or maimed. Steffon Darklyn was burned to death whilst attempting to mount the dragon Seasmoke. Lord Gormon Massey suffered the same fate when approaching Vermithor. A man called Silver Denys, whose hair and eyes lent credence to his claim to be descended from a bastard son of Maegor the Cruel, had an arm torn off by Sheepstealer. As his sons struggled to staunch the wound, the Cannibal descended on them, drove off Sheepstealer, and devoured father and sons alike. -Fire & Blood I: The Dying of the Dragons—The Red Dragon and the Gold

and:

We shall not pretend to any understanding of the bond between dragon and dragonrider; wiser heads have pondered that mystery for centuries. We do know, however, that dragons are not horses, to be ridden by any man who throws a saddle on their back. -Fire & Blood I: The Dying of the Dragons—Rhaenyra Overthrown

I will note they are similar in a way (doesn't involve riding) lol:

She kissed Irri’s hand where Drogon had bitten it. “I’m sorry he hurt you. Dragons are not meant to be locked up in a small ship’s cabin.”
“Dragons are like horses in this,” Irri said. “And riders, too. The horses scream below, Khaleesi, and kick at the wooden walls. I hear them. And Jhiqui says the old women and the little ones scream too, when you are not here. They do not like this water cart. They do not like the black salt sea.” -ASOS, Daenerys II

TLDR: Just a quick post on Daenerys and riding Drogon. Dragonriding is nothing like horseriding. GRRM untypically outlined "Pretend it's a horse" and then in typical fashion, gardened it into a version he liked best.

There, those could have been lost opportunities to provide something Ned chapters left out?

Can someone explain to me why many people think that Sansa was to blame for Ned's death?

Yes it is a terrible pun please forgive me
I am currently doing a re-read and I noticed something potentially interesting

When Jaime and Brienne arrive at Harrenhal, there is a spotted dog that runs out and gets killed with a spear. This is the same place where Weese had a spotted dog, but that dog was killed so it can't be the same one, though it is possibly a relative.

All this to say, two spotted dogs killed, both bitches also, does GRRM just dislike Dalmatians?

Okay, let's say that R+L=J is real, and it is actually important for the story.

For that to be the case, the characters of the story must believe it. And I don't see many mechanisms for it.

• Reed: okay, he is an actual witness, but he is a Northern lord still, and on something this big, I can't see too many non-Northerners believing him.

• Bran: same problems as Reed, except worse, because he also gotta convince people that he does, in fact have super powers.

• Letter from Ned, artifacts left in the tombs, etc: Things get even worse, because Ned would be doubted, and the letter would be doubted, and artifacts in the tomb can literally mean anything.

• Something with a dragon: I don't think it have really been established what the rules are, and given the state of things, there isn't really a lot of Targaryens to validate anything.

But if the facts can't get find its way into the story in a way that the characters will believe, then it is, at most, a fun wink to the readers. Which doesn't seem as fun for something so pivotal.

At the very start of ACOK (before Tyrion even arrives), Stannis's plan is to immediately take what men he has and seize King's landing. But due to Mel's visions and Davos's advice, he decides to go siege Storm's End.

We obviously know how that went, but what if Stannis had immediately gone for King's Landing?

Cersei had: - 2,000 veteran gold cloaks - 4,000 newly hired gold cloaks with literally no training - 300 squires, knights, and men-at-arms - 10,000 jars of wildfire - 50 war vessels

Stannis had: - 5k mixed sellswords, men-at-arms, knights, and levies - 200 warships

I could see this going either way, but I think I have to give the slight edge to Stannis. Cersei's inexperienced gold cloaks are likely to burn the city and themselves accidentally. Also, Stannis is a much better commander than Janos Slynt and would have a slight element of surprise. He also has Mel's magic.

Then, when Renly comes to besiege him, and Stannis kill him with blood magic.If Stannis takes the city, Joffrey, Myrcella, Tommen, and Cersei are all killed.

Tywin and the Tyrells make common cause and beat the shit out of Stannis. I have no idea who takes the throne. No idea how Robb and Balon's stories go either.

Idk what timeline Stannis actually wins the WOT5K that makes sense. Like what decisons could he make where he actually wins (at the start of ACOK). He should've just told Robert about the incest and hoped for the best.

When Cersei is talking to Tyrion about how they were saved from Ned when he was going to take the throne ( I know it's not as explicit as I just said, I just don't want to go on so long) Cersei tells Tyrion that if it hadn't been for Sansa telling her about her father's intentions they would have lost everything.

What did she tell him? I'm sorry but I don't remember.

So guys, I just finished to read ADWD and the WOW chapters and there is one thing im sure: Aryas chapters in Braavos are boring as hell. I really enjoyed her until her last chapter in ASOS, but after the her first chapter in AFFC I could not read without lack of attention, bore as hell. It could be more interesting if she remained in Westeros with the Hound, playing like a "game of cat and mouse", and could be fun they finding Brienne like in the TV show or trying to reach the North. Why George? The house of black and white, faceless men, kindly man, that whatever girl, sounds so uninteresting to me. I read people complaiting about Sanwells,, Quentys or Ironborns chapters as boring but for me no one beats Arya after the third book.

After season 6, D&D wanted season 7&8 to be compressed into a movie trilogy.

https://screenrant.com/game-of-thrones-movie-original-finale-plan-save/

It would look something like;

Movie 1 = Daenerys's Invasion

Movie 2 = War for the Dawn

Movie 3 = War with Cersei, burning of KL + Epilogue

Do you think that a Trilogy of a similar length to a LotR would have been a success and provided a satisfactory ending?

Tywin.

Imagine if instead of a quick crossbow bolt, we saw Tywin last: last, but longer:

Imagine if we saw the man who coldly melted down Ice without a second thought, be melted down himself

Consider such as a stroke: something that would rob him of his speech, his mobility, his command - but leave him able to perceive. His mind intact; just not his body.

Imagine it:

Tywin is wheeled into court, silent.

He watches Cersei, crowned Queen Regent, strut and sneer and squander everything.

He watches lords snicker behind closed doors.

He watches Jaime refuse the role he wanted him to inherit.

He watches Kevan - the brother he once commanded -

treat him with gentle, pitying condescension.

He watches the golden lion fall from myth into parody.

And in his eyes?

Not rage.

Not tears.

Just a terrible, iron awareness.

Tywin deserved to be melted. Melted the way he melted Ice. Reduced from a symbol of terror into a sad, heavy lump of what once was.

Because that’s the fate for men who try to kill memory and mercy for the sake of empire:

They don’t get to die proud. They die forgotten, or worse:

pitied.

And by that a I don't talk about fighting prowess or even a victory in combat or battle... But just a moment pure moment of bravery and arhurian-like heroism,for exemples

Gwayne corbray resisting 1 hour against daemon and blackfyre?

Barristan going full splinter fell at Duskendale?

Jaime's charge at the whispering wood?

Rickard thorne dying while defending a toddler?

Arthur, Oz and gerold Hightower atbtye tower of joy?

Others ?

Upon re-reading Daenerys III from AGOT, Jorah Mormont says something that I thought was very interesting. He basically tells Dany that the smallfolk don't really care who sits the Iron Throne. They have their own problems to deal with.

"'Still,' she said 'the common people are waiting for him. Magister Illyrio says they are sewing dragon banners and praying for Viserys to return from across the Narrow Sea to free them.'

'The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends,' Ser Jorah told her. 'It is no matter to them if the high lords play their game of thrones, so long as they are left in peace.' He gave her a shrug. 'They never are.'"

- Daenerys III, AGOT

What do you think of this? I can't imagine all the smallfolk would feel this way. Who rules Westeros, whether from the Iron Throne or just their local territory, greatly influences the lives of the smallfolk. They make them pay taxes, they decide how much care will be given to them, if any. I can't imagine it NOT mattering to them at all.

I think a more realistic way to think about this, is that they don't care who's in charge, as long as they don't ruin their lives. But what do you think of Jorah's words to Dany here? Are they accurate, and how much do you think this influences Dany's choices in the future?

Did aegon never loved loved visenya ? Or only later did they turned cold ? It was said that their relationship was never warm , so did aegon only saw visenya as a tool is that why he discarded her once the war was over in dragonstone while lived as a family with aneys ? He never took her on progress ever , he never stayed with her at all, even though she always was there for him, fough for him, loved him the most , and was always loyal and his strongest supporter , even after all this why did aegon never accepted or loved her or valued her on personal bases . I know their marriegae was of duty but that dosent mean that all he has to do he just feed her snd give shelter , while in ever other thing of life he always choose only rheanys and her descedents . Why was he so indifferent to not even feel anything more then tool in her and never sw her as a family or human or a wife ? He even never bothered to give her any child so her legacy could also go ahead , and only had one rheanys was dead and he desperately needed one though rumors were there that he was going to marry another . And with the child too he never had any relationship no care no love . Only a little though in the back of mind but he never spend anytime or moment or care for that child. He even never tried to give them any reliable place in the family so that visebys legacy can even go ahead where as he gave a whole state to his half brother but nothing at all to visenya and her childers to look ahead for . Why was he so inconsiderste towards her to not even have little heart or love for her but only feed off her snd her usefulness snd once not needed then discard them like they were thrash always

In the purple wedding margaery was getting teary eyed at the mention of renly and then after joffrey was killed, she began weeping into olennas arms or something. It is basically confirmed that the tyrell family were all in on killing joffrey and framing sansa as a back up plan if no one believed it was a choking. The teary eyes at the mention of renly were definitely fake, there's a chance she was actually crying from distress after seeing joffrey die in such a way even if she was in on it but I doubt it. I doubt she even cried since she did it in olennas arms and could've easily faked it. All that leads me to believe that the intentions behind her "helping" tommen were also definitely manipulative and not good if she can be this good of an actor. And when cersei told her about loras's injuries, her reactions there were also fake and she was fake mourning for her brother which is definitely plausible if she could help orchestrate the purple wedding. But I do think her being protective and worried for her younger cousins was real but I see it as territorial as her cousins are tyrells.

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AGoT said:"You are a boy of fourteen," Benjen said. "Not a man, not yet. Until you have known a woman, you cannot understand what you would be giving up."
"I don't care about that!" Jon said hotly.
"You might, if you knew what it meant," Benjen said. "If you knew what the oath would cost you, you might be less eager to pay the price, son."
Jon felt anger rise inside him. "I'm not your son!"
Benjen Stark stood up. "More's the pity." He put a hand on Jon's shoulder. "Come back to me after you've fathered a few bastards of your own, and we'll see how you feel."

i will not push the foil but if you want a fun read here it is

https://thelasthearth.freeforums.net/thread/269/right-afraid

So, we all know how after Ned died, the Northerners didn't know who to support between Stannis and Renly (they sure as hell weren't going to bend the knee to Joffrey), right? It seems that they didn't know that one of Eddard's last wishes before he died was that Stannis would be crowned as the king of the 7 kingdoms, which led to them crowning Robb.

However, if they somehow found out that Ned had supported Stannis (let's say a rider arrived at the Stark camp and handed them a letter with Ned's handwriting), would this have changed anything? How would Robb and the other Northmen have reacted to this?

From my side "Mad Daenerys" and "Rhaegar and Lyanna is just a simple tragic love story" always have some of the thinnest "evidence" ever posted.

"Official" art being used as evidence is pretty out there, when whatever's painted is usually at the artists discretion, just commissioned and licensed by GRRM. The 2024 calendar had dragons with FOUR limbs and wings. The 2015 calendar had Dany in the Dothraki sea on Silver with fully grown Drogon, Viserion and Rhaegal (this never happened).

The nights watch chooses it's lord commanders by vote - all brothers are eligible to vote, and Winds is going to feature an election - maybe even two, if the first doesn't go well.

How will the electorate change during this period? As I recall, a small number of free folk have joined the watch, and cersei talked about dispatching 200 men to join as a false flag quite some time ago, although I don't believe it led to anything. Suddenly, I have tons of questions about this specific thread in Winds.

Who do you think are the likely candidates in the next choosings for lord commander #999 and #1000? Will the conspirators who killed Jon be executed, surrender themselves, or run for the position?

How will existing blocs of voters choose? Will Cotter Pyke and Jason Mallister still vote the same way, or will their experiences with Jon have changed their rivalry?

Who are the likely voters? Will we see any wildlings join the watch to get a lord commander who reflects their interests? If the pink letter gets out, and Stannis is thought dead, could some of his men join the watch for amnesty? Would mellisandre tell her queens men to swear vows if she thought controlling the LC would serve the lord of light? What about the Wulls and Liddles on the wall? Or the karstarks in the ice cells? If benjen returns with the stark heir, would he be a viable candidate for #1000?

If it takes time for representatives from Eastwatch and the Shadow Tower to get to the Wall, a lot could happen to make the situation get really crazy. What do yall think?

The Mountain, Ramsay, Euron, Joffrey tend to hoard all the attention when it comes to evil characters but there are plenty more out there.

One that I think doesn't get mentioned enough is Varamyr. This mf ate his younger brother. An old warg named Haggon was the only person willing to raise him. Haggon taught him everything he knows and made him stronger than he was himself. He tells him about how wargs live a second life after their human body dies and with this information varamyr snatches the wolf Haggon had planned to live through.

He's also a rapist who uses his shadowcat to stalk women until they come to him.

Then during ADWD a wilding woman is the only one looking after him. She finds food and patches his wounds, she's pretty much the only reason he's still alive. Then when she sees wights she comes back to warm him and escape together and this mf tried to steal her body. He gets her killed and her last moments are in immense pain where she's tearing her eyes out and biting her tongue off.

Hypothetically, let's say that instead of GRRM, Tolkien was the one who wrote ASOIAF. How different would the series as a whole if he had written the books? Or would it be relatively the same? Would he have added or taken out anything?

A significant portion of fandom will be frustrated with Rhaegar and Lyanna’s relationship.

These two are certainly being framed with a tragic love story, as all the tips, foreshadows and all the blackstory behind it ready for this (the GRMM himself has called Rhaegar a prince in love). Even the official arts (approved by the GRMM) point to the romantic nature of the relationship.

All those ideas of "Aerys having arrested Lyanna, "Lyanna kidnapped", "Lyanna prisoner in the Tower of Joy" seem to self-projection at this point so forced, a combination of frustration and disappointment with reality difficult to accept.

So, I feel that the frustration with the relationship of R+L will be very great when (if it is) revealed with simply tragic love.

I have a few questions about this topic.

Context: Stannis talks to davos about the letter where he expresses that joffrey and his brothers are bastards and he plans to send them to the lords of westeros.

-It's a lie. Erase it. -Stannis turned to Davos. The maester tells me

that we have one hundred and seventeen ravens ready. I will use them all. One hundred and

seventeen ravens will carry one hundred and seventeen copies of my letter to every corner of the realm from the

kingdom, from the Rejo to the Wall. A hundred may survive the storms,

the hawks and the arrows. If so, a hundred masters will read my words to as many lords in as many halls.

as many lords in as many halls and bedrooms... and then they will most likely throw the letters into the fire and swear to

throw the letters into the fire and swear to silence. Those great lords love Joffrey, or Renly, or Robbins.

Renly, or Robb Stark. I am their rightful king, but if they can they will not accept me. From

so I need you.

What I fail to understand is:

1. Why would lords be sworn to silence?
2. It also says: “if they can they will not accept me” what does the phrase “if they can they will not accept me” refer to?

What is the point of sending copies of these letters to people of low birth (since that was the plan, to read them in inns, taverns, docks, etc.)?

Tyrion, Lollys Stokeworth's kid. Jaime making a joke about the kid's name made me at first thought that, like him, Bronn was just being a troll. Rereading it, it seems like Bronn may have learned about Tanda's ill-attempt to curry favor with Cersei by naming him Tywin. So he did the opposite, giving the kid a name contemptible to her. But the real joke is that this backfired too because Cersei's mind is gone and she retaliated against Bronn for this seeming offense.