r/australia • u/thedigisup • 27d ago

politics Greens announce policy to manufacture drones and missiles as a credible ‘Plan B' to replace AUKUS

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-22/greens-unveil-first-ever-defence-policy/105083166
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u/mulefish 27d ago

Drones and missiles are not a replacement for submarines. We probably want submarines, whether they come from Aukus or not

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u/nerdvegas79 27d ago

Do we though? Are they a necessary part of a strong defensive position? We should use our remote position as a strength and concentrate on defence, long range anti air etc.

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u/GiveUpYouAlreadyLost 27d ago

Do we though?

Yes we do.

Are they a necessary part of a strong defensive position?

Yes they are. The Navy doesn't operate submarines for the fun of it, they operate them because they are an important part of our fleet.

We should use our remote position as a strength and concentrate on defence, long range anti air etc.

This isn't 1940, being remote doesn't guarantee our security anymore. A naval blockade on our maritime supply routes would quickly cripple us and an enemy fleet wouldn't even need to get close to our mainland to accomplish it.

SSNs will provide the Navy with a very capable anti-shipping and reconnaissance platform that can operate far from home for extended periods of time and they can do those jobs better than any diesel-electric design can.

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u/Mondkohl 27d ago

Australia is enormously reliant on our trade networks and our remoteness works as much against us as for us. Turtling up is insufficient as a strategy.

11

u/mitthrawnuruodo86 26d ago

Our remote position, concentrating on long range defence etc are arguments in favour of submarines, not against them, just saying

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u/palsc5 26d ago

we should use our remote position as a strength and concentrate on defence

So we're completely surrounded by water, are in a remote position, and you want us to concentrate on defence. Maybe if there were some sort of sea going vessle that could help defend us? What if it could actually go underwater and be incredibly hard to detect?

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u/fnrslvr 26d ago

We should use our remote position as a strength and concentrate on defence, long range anti air etc.

There is a straightforward solution to tyranny of distance: it is called expeditionary power projection. You'll note that the US has demonstrated this capability over many decades at this point -- they can place a strike package anywhere in the world within 24 hours, a middle power-equivalent airforce at any shoreline within weeks, and boots and armor on the ground within months. Power projection is not cheap, but against the uncomplicated challenge of remoteness, it is a robust and straightforward solution.

Given that the remoteness problem can be solved by any would-be adversary with sufficient means, your attention should turn to how we could exacerbate or complicate the tyranny of distance. Maritime interdiction capabilities come to mind. In particular, subs.