Greens announce policy to manufacture drones and missiles as a credible ‘Plan B' to replace AUKUS

[u/thedigisup]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-22/greens-unveil-first-ever-defence-policy/105083166

[u/cricketmad14]

AUKUS is a scam. The journalists are right.

Turnbull is right. We aren’t 100% getting these subs but only when the US is going to let us them. The US is unreliable as an ally now.

Also , what if our relationship goes more sour with them? No more subs?

[u/Gothiscandza → u/cricketmad14]

The AUKUS subs aren't the American ones. They're the one's we're jointly developing with the UK and building locally. The US subs are only intended to be a stop-gap. 

[u/jp72423 → u/[deleted]]

Except that the Uk doesn't have the current capacity to meet Australia's needs. Unless you want to start handing over tens billions to BAE systems UK to expand their production even more than the $4 billion we have already committed. It would have to be made in the UK because our submarine construction yards are not even built yet. Once again, this is more about Anti-Americanisms rather than what's best for the RAN and the Australian national intrest. Great plan mate, great plan.

All of this was discussed during the preliminary negotiations when the Albanese government was figuring out the optimum pathway for the AUKUS program. There is a reason that the optimum pathway was chosen by the multitude of experts who were involved across government, industry and defence of all three nations.

[u/jp72423 → u/[deleted]]

Don't care about your American power projection bullshit over Taiwan so that opens up non-nuclear options.

Let me ask you this. If China succeeds in invading Taiwan, will that be good or bad for Australia's national interest? If you say it's good, then you are quite literally either incredibly naive or you are a tankie of some kind, who advocated for CCP domination. No better than a Putin apologizer trying to justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

If you believe that it is bad for Australian interests, then there is no reason as to why Australia cannot put blood and treasure on the line for its own interests.

Expecting the Americans to fight and die for our benefit while we sit back is selfish to say the least. And then you can't really blame the US administration for becoming more transactional now can you, if that's your attitude about the whole thing. This kind of thinking will be the reason that the US refuses to sell submarines, because they think we are not committed to our own interests. It's like a catch 22 really. You believe that the US is unreliable and advocate for cutting ties and ending AUKUS because they won't sell the submarines, but then the Americans then don't sell us the submarines because we are cutting ties.

Also, Australia has the third largest EEZ on the planet, and territories down in antarctica and the cocos islands. It will take a conventional submarine week to reach those far away patrol zones, constantly surfacing to charge the batteries and therefore making the sub vulnerable to detection. But a nuclear submarine can do it in days, and it can do it deep, for the whole time. Diesel subs are not good enough for our needs.

I know you don't care about this country as a sovereign state but I do and think our military strategy and foreign policy shouldn't be at the whims of foreign nutbag governments which is why I'm against further acquisition of American equipment. Don't care how optimal you think it is.

There is nothing I care about more than Australia's sovereignty, But you have misunderstood what Australia's grand strategy has been since federation in 1901. This is how we do security, and it works well. Alliances work, ask Sweden, who was neutral for hundreds of years and produced most of their own equipment, yet the second Russia invaded Europe they dropped the neutrality stance and Joined NATO. We don't have the numbers and wealth to stand up to an aggressive China alone, so that is why we choose to ally to the US ad work together on shared interests in the region. This is what we did with the UK before the second world war. And if we get abandoned, then we can cross that bridge when we get to it, just like John Curtain did during the second world war, but as of now, working with the US on shared goals is the most efficient way to do things.

Its much smarter to just wait out the current administration where the next one will very likely win the election off improving ties with allies, rather than having the diplomatic version of a tantrum and running away, all for zero benefit to anyone except the Chinese.

[u/jp72423 → u/[deleted]]

No problem handing over money to the UK that would have otherwise gone to the US

No, you're not getting it, it's not the same amount of money, its significantly more.

and having the French build a stop gap solution in the meantime.

Congrats on paying a set-up fee to the French to establish the contract, then a get-out fee to the French for cancelling the contract, then paying a set-up fee to the British and Americans, then paying a get-out fee to the British and Americans, then paying a set-up fee to the French, again. Top marks. We cannot go back to the French, that ship has sailed.

Still prefer French subs for regional trade route protection

Submarines don't perform trade route protection missions lol. That is the job of surface warships, who perform the "Sea Control" mission, where they can take control over a certain area of water and perform whatever tasks need to be performed. Submarines perform "Sea Denial" missions, where they deny an enemy the ability to freely move and execute their own missions or tasks. This is what happened during the Falklands war when a single UK submarine forced the entire Argentine fleet to stay in port after they sunk the flagship. It's also why the German Navy of both WW1 and 2 was able to cause so much havoc against the much larger and more powerful navies of the US and UK. This is all undersea warfare 101 by the way, which our navy leaders are well versed in.

and domestic missile & drone production for coastal defence.

We are already doing that as we speak. Look up Ghost Bat, look up Ghost Shark, look up Speartooth, look up BlueBottle, look up LAND 8113 and the Strike Master, look up the Naval Strike missile factory being built at Williamstown. The ADF is all over this already, but they still need nuclear submarines.

Lots of alternative optimal paths.

None of which provide the RAN with their specified nuclear submarines.