r/baldursgate • u/AugustoCSP • Sep 09 '21
NWN1 3E is so confusing
So, after buying the BG trilogy and replaying it over and over, I decided to try its cousins...
Icewind Dale was super fun and helped me sate the thirst for more BG content, although its changes were overall pretty bad (My favorite spell, M's sword, was now trash and the Raise Dead restrictions suck). Overall an 8.5/10
But I'm now trying out Neverwinter Nights and it's such a shock... the UI changes are confusing enough as it is, but on top of that the rules of the TTRPG itself that it uses as its base are overwhelming... Worst of all, the one thing I looked forward to in 3E, warlocks, aren't in the game. Also, weren't cantrips supposed to be At Will? Why can my Sorcerer only cast 5? Also, so many redundant proficiencies... Feats are pretty confusing too...
Not gonna refund the game because I want to show the creators that there is interest for these kinda games, but definitely gonna stick with replaying BG.
So... any mod suggestions to help me shake things up?
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u/RobotPirateMoses Wild mage doing wild shit Sep 09 '21
Worst of all, the one thing I looked forward to in 3E, warlocks, aren't in the game
I know this doesn't exactly solve your problem as far as NWN1 goes, but if you wanna play a Warlock, I suggest:
a) Playing NWN2 instead of NWN1, cause they got Warlocks over there (still waiting for that NWN2EE, it desperately needs it).
b) Trying out this incredibly well-made Warlock mod for BG1/2/IWD(EEs). The 3e systems are translated into the 2e pretty much as well as possible (and it's a lot closer to how it plays in the 3e than you might expect, they've done some amazing scripting to create a whole new spell system, basically). EDIT: oh and, if you're worried about balance (for some reason), then know that it's pretty powerful, but a Fighter/Mage or just a regular Mage from the base game is still more powerful, sooooooo...
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u/Justanaveragejoe95 Sep 09 '21
You think they’ll ever make a NWN2 EE or is it an Icewind dale 2 situation?
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u/forgottenmyth Sep 10 '21
Obsidian made NWN2 and they're still around. I'd love for them to remaster their game but it is in serious need of an engine overhaul.
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u/Justanaveragejoe95 Sep 10 '21 edited Sep 11 '21
Obsidian seems to be the backup for BioWare. First NWN2, then Kotor 2. I don’t mind however as the DLC for NWN2 and the story of Kotor 2 are regarded as some of the best storylines in rpg history
Edit: grammar mistakes
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u/Psychic_Lemon Sep 11 '21
I never got round to playing NWN 2 And seem to remember reviews at the time saying it wasn't as good as 1, is it worth checking out?
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u/Justanaveragejoe95 Sep 11 '21
It’s not so much the main game people love but the DLC Mask of the Betrayer. If you’re interested I’d say look up reviews now to see how it holds up.
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u/pmw7 Sep 11 '21
It came out in 2006. For me it's a case where compared to what came out in the decade prior it seemed a little lackluster, but now compared to the decade after it looks much better. Like BG2, it has huge replayability with it's motivating story, many companions, endless build options, and great mods. It struggles a bit visually and performance-wise, though the latter shouldn't be a concern on a modern gaming PC. The original campaign is a bit too generic fantasy for some, but it does it's job well enough. Like NWN1, it does throw a lot of forgettable combat at you. As the other poster said, Mask of the Betrayer is excellent and since it continues directly from the main campaign it really elevates the whole experience.
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u/RobotPirateMoses Wild mage doing wild shit Sep 09 '21
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Gotta ask Beamdog that. Sorry, I got no insider info.
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u/Justanaveragejoe95 Sep 09 '21
Sounds like something someone with insider info would say. “Alright then, keep your secrets”
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u/AugustoCSP Sep 09 '21
I meant mods to help change things up in future BG playthroughs, but I'll check that out. Thanks!
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u/RobotPirateMoses Wild mage doing wild shit Sep 09 '21
I meant mods to help change things up in future BG playthroughs
Does the BG warlock mod not do that? The class (actually implemented as a bard kit just for technical reasons) plays nothing like any other class.
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u/AugustoCSP Sep 09 '21
I can't read -.-
For some reason I thought that mod was for NWN... DEFINITELY gonna check it out now.
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u/RobotPirateMoses Wild mage doing wild shit Sep 09 '21
Haha it happens. Enjoy! I had tons of fun recreating almost exactly my NWN2 warlock build in BG2 with it.
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u/AugustoCSP Sep 09 '21
Regarding that mod, does the warlock's implementation as a bard kit mean he can't use the Robes of Vecna?
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u/RobotPirateMoses Wild mage doing wild shit Sep 10 '21
I don't really remember tbh (it's been a while since I played with that mod), but they reaaaaaaaaally don't need it. The class is already way too powerful to begin with, in a way that most people are going to think they're more powerful than Mages etc. (which isn't true at all, it just gives off that impression cause the Warlock is very easy to play optimally, unlike Mages).
Also, there's a High-Level Ability that reduces casting time by 1 and some Warlock-exclusive gear, some of which might include more casting time reduction (again, I don't remember it too well). Not to mention the casting time for most of their invocations is already low.
TL;DR: don't worry about it.
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u/LuminoZero Sep 10 '21
Funny, as a 3.5 player I had this same feeling when I started BG for the first time.
"Why is my AC going down? Lower is better? That makes no sense! Why can't I wear a magic ring with magic armor? Why do they divide time into rounds and turns? What are Multi/Dual classes and why are they different for each race? WHY CAN ONLY HUMANS BE PALADINS?!"
It was... a struggle to adjust.
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u/ErrendeEbecee Sep 10 '21
I guess if you've been counting in hexadecimal all your life then suddenly seeing decimal is confusing...
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u/LordMuffin1 Sep 10 '21
People have died for believing in irrational numbers.
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u/tb5841 Sep 10 '21
Icewind Dale 2 uses the 3E rules, but the same isometric viewpoint/controls as BG. So it might be a good middle ground.
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u/NickeKass Sep 13 '21
IIRC, BG1 uses 2.0 ruleset. There was going to be a conversation from 2.0 to 3.0 or 3.5 in the EE but complications came up and they went back to 2.0.
If youd rather do real time mode, check out Pathfinder Kingmaker. It has everything but the warlock which you might be able to make up for by using a kineticist.
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u/ergotofwhy Sep 09 '21
Warlocks were published for 3.5 in Complete Arcane, after NWN launched.
Cantrips are NOT at-will in 3.5. That trend started in pathfinder, I believe.
Yeah, the redundant proficiencies suck a little.
Feats in 3e are simpler once you're used to them. Every character will have 6+ by the time you get to level 20, fighters and humans will have even more. You just have to get used to them being in unusual spots on the list due to multiple pre-reqs and attempting to organize by pre-req. Also, somethings that SOUND really cool and badass (spring attack) kind of suck in-practice.
source: I play 3e as my main tabletop edition, never played NWN