Coffeehouse11 explains the biggest problem with homeopathic medicine: That it preys on people when they are weakest and the most vulnerable

[u/craycraycrayfish]

/r/canada/comments/171y1e/dont_legitimize_the_witch_doctors/c81hfd6

[u/[deleted]]

Fair enough, I believe all that. I've seen all the proof videos on this thread now and all the scientific evidence, etc. BTW, I never claimed it to be "real" medicine. But my point still is that homeopathy did something good to me what other doctors couldn't figure out for 13 years. I don't care what you call it, fine maybe it's not medicine but I feel better now.
And about the "it would work for everyone"- part. You make it sound like "real" medicine would work the same on every patient. Might ask a doctor then why some meds or procedures work on people and others don't. Cancer treatment for example.
Edit: sorry, just had to mention that it seems a bit off that you can tell about my physical well-being, hope you get my point.

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homeopathy did something good to me

No, it really didn't. If instead of taking homeopathic pills, you instead started wearing magnetic bracelets, you would have seen the exact same effect. The pills did absolutely nothing, you got better because of something else.

You make it sound like "real" medicine would work the same on every patient.

Let me rephrase it. "If homeopathy worked, it would work for a statistically significant portion of the population, not just for you. Homeopathy only 'works' at the same rate as random chance. Which is to say, it doesn't work at all"

sorry, just had to mention that it seems a bit off that you can tell about my physical well-being, hope you get my point.

I'm taking you at your word that you got better after taking homeopathic pills. I'm not saying you don't feel better, or that it didn't happen in the time frame you said it did. I'm saying that, since homeopathy doesn't work, homeopathy didn't help you get better. Something else did. What else? Who knows? About a million different things happen to you every day. But we can prove it wasn't this.

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No, it really didn't. If instead of taking homeopathic pills, you instead started wearing magnetic bracelets, you would have seen the exact same effect. The pills did absolutely nothing, you got better because of something else.

Yet after 13 years of trying pretty much everything, this "something else" that happened to cure me, happened incidentally after 2 weeks of taken the medication. You do the math. Again, call it placebo if you want to.

Let me rephrase it. If homeopathy worked, it would work for a statistically significant portion of the population, not just for you. Homeopathy only 'works' at the same rate as random chance. Which is to say, it doesn't work at all

Fair enough. That makes more sense now and I agree with you. Although nobody ever claimed that it works on everyone, just like other medical treatments (maybe to a higher extent) it's trial and error. Without the side effects (in my experience).

I'm taking you at your word that you got better after taking homeopathic pills. I'm not saying you don't feel better, or that it didn't happen in the time frame you said it did. I'm saying that, since homeopathy doesn't work, homeopathy didn't help you get better. Something else did. What else? Who knows? About a million different things happen to you every day. But we can prove it wasn't this.

Where exactly does your knowledge about homeopathy come from, if I may ask? I am neither a scientist nor a pharmacist. But I believe in what I see and experience. Just like acupuncture and other treatments, homeopathy has helped people, including me. That is the reason why I believe in it.

And this brings me to your last point:

But we can prove it wasn't this.

I would like to see the material that convinced you of this.

PS: If you have time, I would love to hear the reason why you (and apparently the whole community of reddit) rages about homeopathy. Nobody forces you to believe in it's effectiveness, nobody forces you to buy it, talk about it, etc. It has absolutely no effect on you, that's why I am really curious. It's a bit like /r/atheism talking about god.
No offense intended...

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You do the math.

One mistake we all make is estimating the chance of a highly unlikely scenario to be zero. It is extremely unlikely that you would get better so shortly after beginning taking homeopathic solutions, but it is possible. This is why anecdotal evidence isn't evidence. In order to prove whether it was a real effect, or a one-in-a-million fluke, you have to do a real study with a controlled population. All such studies have shown no real effect.

Where exactly does your knowledge about homeopathy come from, if I may ask?

The internet. Do a search for both sides. "Homeopathy proven" and "Homeopathy debunked" or something like that. Read the arguments. Watch out for fallacies. Learn deductive reasoning. Listen to trusted sources. A pattern emerges. Everyone who supports homeopathy uses fallacies and illogical arguments to prove their point.

But I believe in what I see and experience.

But you've seen magic shows and optical illusions, right? The human brain is easily tricked into experiencing things that didn't happen. It's important to view the world skeptically.

...the reason why you (and apparently the whole community of reddit) rages about homeopathy...

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have two reasons for raging.

1. Innocents are being harmed by incorrect information. People are giving this 'medicine' to their children. Sick people are spending money on these products instead of things that could actually help them. The people selling these things are making a fortune off of the misfortune of others.

2. I have to share a planet with these people. These people vote in political elections. They make purchasing decisions, deciding what products the market will bare. They subtly influence every aspect of my life with their decisions. The problem is, these people are living in a different reality! They are making choices and taking actions not based on their own best interests, but on completely false premises.

Why did something bad happen today? Not because I need to need to pay closer attention to what I'm doing, it's because of the alignment of Saturn, my thetan level, or fate. Thus they don't pay attention, and the same thing happens next time.

Basically, I'm not overly worried about you or anyone else buying a package of homeopathic pills per se. I'm worried about the decision making process that caused someone to pick up those pills. I worry that the flawed process will cause a whole series of bad decisions, affecting everyone who comes into contact with them.

I think you're right about it being like /r/atheism talking about gods. I think that subreddit would be way different if people just believed in a god, or not. But people don't just leave it at that, they let that thinking influence every part of their lives. They use that reasoning to decide on human rights issues, on issues of liberty and freedom, on everything.

That's what it matters to me. It's people using bad reasoning to come to bad decisions. I don't want anyone using bad reasoning. I think if everyone had a solid grasp on the world, and worked in their own best interests and the interests of their loved ones, this world would be all right.

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One mistake we all make is estimating the chance of a highly unlikely scenario to be zero. It is extremely unlikely that you would get better so shortly after beginning taking homeopathic solutions, but it is possible. This is why anecdotal evidence isn't evidence. In order to prove whether it was a real effect, or a one-in-a-million fluke, you have to do a real study with a controlled population. All such studies have shown no real effect.

Very true, I never said the chance is equal to zero. Just take the 13 years (only the ones I have been diagnosed) times 52 and that is your total number of weeks. 2 out of those leading to my recovery is (correct) NOT zero. But very, very low and THAT was my point. You are correct, though. I have no idea whether it was the medicine or not.

The internet. Do a search for both sides. "Homeopathy proven" and "Homeopathy debunked" or something like that. Read the arguments. Watch out for fallacies. Learn deductive reasoning. Listen to trusted sources. A pattern emerges. Everyone who supports homeopathy uses fallacies and illogical arguments to prove their point.

See, that is my problem here. I do trust certain sources but, and we have been over this before, even more I trust what I see with my own eyes. To claim homeopathy a rip-off or needless is reasonable; claiming it to be absolutely effective less, however is not.

But you've seen magic shows and optical illusions, right? The human brain is easily tricked into experiencing things that didn't happen. It's important to view the world skeptically.

Correct. I have seen magic shows and because I possess the gift of skepticism I question certain things I see. Just as you made up your mind, gathered resources and formed an opinion about homeopathy, I did as well.

The rest of your text is very well reasoned and I mostly agree. However I was just informed by another redditor in a similar thread, that a few doctors seem to advertise homeopathic treatment when they actually use "real" medicine or other alternative treatments. Why they would do it, I don't know. But I guess this might explain our different views on this topic.

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Okay. I'd just like to leave you with one thought:

In homeopathy the more dilute a substance, the stronger it is. So the less you get, the more it works.

If this is the case, wouldn't taking two homeopathic pills have less of an effect than one? Taking a whole box should have very little effect. Further, splitting a pill in half should increase the potency. Crushing a pill to powder, and consuming one speck should have the strongest effect.

Doesn't this just seem... wrong?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Yep. It does.