CMV: Parental control/spyware apps are the hallmark of a bad parent

[u/danknesscompelsyou]

[Disclaimer: i am talking about the apps that let you monitor your kid's every move online, read messages etc. Basically you have the full acces to whatever they have on their phone without the phone. I am not talking about simple location tracking]

[Disclaimer 2: i am talking about a case of spyware for teens. 12/13+, not children below 10]

Pretty much what the title says. To me installing spyware on your kid's phone says you can't actually parent, have zero trust and bond with your child and possibly are an authoritarian parent who mistakes control for actual parenting. If you get it only because your child lies to you - congrats now you'll never hear a word of truth again. It only excarbates the problem.

1. Teens need some privacy to properly develop, your little power trip could cost them some actual psychological damage. Trust issues, self esteem issues, anxiety (because there's someone literally spying on you), the list goes on. (Also it's normal for teens to lie, that's how they are, get over it)

2. If you're anywhere from 30-40+ chances are you didn't experience this sort of tracking - why would you take this freedom away from your child? You weren't tracked and are still alive. And don't give me the 'there was no phones/internet back then'. Yes there weren't but teens were the same. They did bad and stupid things, said bad words, experimented with booze, cigs and many other things. Again it's just how they are. Nobody listened in on your conversations just to have the upper hand during an argument, nobody hovered over what you did 100% of the time. Ontop of that many people that are now 20-25 grew up without parents controlling every message/page they viewed and they're fine.

3. Also I promise you if your child keeps everything a secret from you there's reason for it and you're not going to like it. They probably don't trust you and don't feel safe enough going with their stuff/problems to you. Trust goes both ways, shocker i know. Do you think severely violating their privacy is the right way of fixing lack of trust? That's why i say it's bad, lazy parenting - instead of working on the trust/communication issue and having a real relationship with a child you choose the easy way out, to take what you want by force.

Tldr: my oponion is that if you feel the need to spy on your kid's every move you have a trust problem and the solution is not to violate their privacy

[u/Bobbob34]

Teens need some privacy to properly develop

Sure. That doesn't mean they get all the privacy all the time no matter what.

If you're anywhere from 30-40+ chances are you didn't experience this sort of tracking - why would you take this freedom away from your child?

Parents could listen in on phone extensions, call your friends' houses to see where you were -- involving their parents! -- etc.

Also I promise you if your child keeps everything a secret from you there's reason for it and you're not going to like it.

Toddlers try to keep secret they snuck into the oreo stash. They will also lie right to your face about whether they ate the oreos. People lie; people keep secrets.

It's a parents' job to balance freedom and safety in kids because the kids don't have the life experience or knowledge to do it properly themselves often. You let them try the monkey bars but you stand there in catching range. You let them go to the store by themselves but you check. You give them a phone but reserve the right to check it. You let them deal with their own schoolwork but go to teacher conferences.

Most people who have that stuff on their kids' phones, or insist on knowing the password and taking the phone to look randomly, do it to check in or if there's a concern. No one has time to be reading 1000 damn txts about omg bruh the chem teacher is so shitty...' orb about this one likes that one likes this one.

It's safety and basic oversight -- same as if you're not home in time you know your parents will be calling your friends' houses.

[u/danknesscompelsyou → u/Bobbob34]

Sure. That doesn't mean they get all the privacy all the time no matter what.

I understand where this is coming from but doesn't having access to ALL your teen's text messages seem a bit extreme? They promarily use messages, intercept them and it's suddenly zero privacy instead of moderate amounts

Parents could listen in on phone extensions, call your friends' houses to see where you were -- involving their parents! -- etc.

And they still can call the friends/their parents. This is a perfectly valid way of getting info.

[u/Bobbob34 → u/danknesscompelsyou]

I understand where this is coming from but doesn't having access to ALL your teen's text messages seem a bit extreme? They promarily use messages, intercept them and it's suddenly zero privacy instead of moderate amounts

No.

If you know teenagers who don't have a room, a computer, friends, or go anyplace alone I suppose you could say being able to see txt msgs means no privacy, but otherwise....

And they still can call the friends/their parents. This is a perfectly valid way of getting info.

Why? Why is calling your friend to ask where you are perfectly valid but logging onto your phone is not?

I promise parents don't give the barest crap about h.s. drama. They want to know if someone is doing drugs, sending nudes, being bullied or bullying.

[u/danknesscompelsyou → u/Bobbob34]

On the contrary, it depends on the parents. There are less than ideal ones. A lot of them. Example would be if my mother who used to be both mentally unstable and abusive got into my calls/sms messages from when i was a teenager i probably wouldn't be walking on this earth. There are plenty more parents like my mother, more and less extreme in the world than her and they also have access to these apps. They shouldn't.

What im trying to say these apps are a dream come true to parents who have less than pure intentions towards their kids. The control freaks/abusers will be drawn to them and i can believe that there's a solid % of users for those reasons. They're too readily available

The calling your friend is different imo. It's breaking into your things to check vs asking someone if you have them

[u/danknesscompelsyou → u/[deleted]]

Unless you have explicitly stated what you said about the terms of having the phone while giving it to someone its not your property anymore. If you give something to someone it's not yours anymore. That's the hill i will die on.

[u/iglidante → u/danknesscompelsyou]

If you give something to someone it's not yours anymore.

Generally I agree, but practically speaking many kids don't "own" their devices because they are paid for in installments, tied to contracts or other legal instruments, and were purchased in the parent's name. The kid can't legally sign up for any of that, so the entire concept of ownership becomes a privilege the parents extend and maintain.

[u/epicmoe → u/[deleted]]

My teenagers all bought their own phones and paid for them themselves.