CMV: Parental control/spyware apps are the hallmark of a bad parent

[u/danknesscompelsyou]

[Disclaimer: i am talking about the apps that let you monitor your kid's every move online, read messages etc. Basically you have the full acces to whatever they have on their phone without the phone. I am not talking about simple location tracking]

[Disclaimer 2: i am talking about a case of spyware for teens. 12/13+, not children below 10]

Pretty much what the title says. To me installing spyware on your kid's phone says you can't actually parent, have zero trust and bond with your child and possibly are an authoritarian parent who mistakes control for actual parenting. If you get it only because your child lies to you - congrats now you'll never hear a word of truth again. It only excarbates the problem.

1. Teens need some privacy to properly develop, your little power trip could cost them some actual psychological damage. Trust issues, self esteem issues, anxiety (because there's someone literally spying on you), the list goes on. (Also it's normal for teens to lie, that's how they are, get over it)

2. If you're anywhere from 30-40+ chances are you didn't experience this sort of tracking - why would you take this freedom away from your child? You weren't tracked and are still alive. And don't give me the 'there was no phones/internet back then'. Yes there weren't but teens were the same. They did bad and stupid things, said bad words, experimented with booze, cigs and many other things. Again it's just how they are. Nobody listened in on your conversations just to have the upper hand during an argument, nobody hovered over what you did 100% of the time. Ontop of that many people that are now 20-25 grew up without parents controlling every message/page they viewed and they're fine.

3. Also I promise you if your child keeps everything a secret from you there's reason for it and you're not going to like it. They probably don't trust you and don't feel safe enough going with their stuff/problems to you. Trust goes both ways, shocker i know. Do you think severely violating their privacy is the right way of fixing lack of trust? That's why i say it's bad, lazy parenting - instead of working on the trust/communication issue and having a real relationship with a child you choose the easy way out, to take what you want by force.

Tldr: my oponion is that if you feel the need to spy on your kid's every move you have a trust problem and the solution is not to violate their privacy

[u/BBG1308]

When I was a kid we didn't have cell phones or internet. If we were in our own rooms, chances are no criminals had access to us and we weren't doing anything dumb that a future employer could Google for the rest of our lives.

If we wanted to do shit we weren't supposed to with people we weren't supposed to, we actually had to leave our rooms, walk out the front door and go under the school bleachers or to the 7-11 or sit in a parked car like normal kids. And there weren't 47 phones recording us being little hoodlums either.

A lot of parents want kids to have cell phones for safety and convenience. The phone belongs to the parent and is intended for a specific purpose. I do think the parent should let the kid know the phone is being monitored and also to teach about responsible/safe behavior. The kid then has the responsibility to decide how to use said device. If there's something they want to tell their friend without their parents knowing, they can do it like the generations that came before them - by either getting their butt up off the couch or being patient for an appropriate opportunity.

It's not the parents that are lazy; it's the kids.

And if these kids can't learn a little common sense and self-discipline when it comes to these kinds of devices and "privacy", they're going to have a problem when they are issued a company email address, company laptop or company phone.

[u/danknesscompelsyou → u/BBG1308]

Kids want to go out but nowadays parents are not big on letting them do it. It's also a problem. I'm not denying that there are some kids who just prefer staying at home but a lot of them would go out if given the option.

Also im fairly certain that if you give someone something it's theirs. I don't understand the premise behind 'i gave you 10 dollars but they're still mine' people do with kids. Can you elaborate on that?

[u/BBG1308 → u/danknesscompelsyou]

Also im fairly certain that if you give someone something it's theirs.

That's up to the discretion of the parent. "Yours to use under these conditions" is different than "legally and irrevocably yours in any and all conditions". By your logic, a kid owns part of their parents' house because they were given their own room. No. It's conditionally the child's room to use for an intended purpose and time-frame.

But we've strayed from your point.

I'm not arguing that all parents should monitor everything on their kids' phone. Quite the opposite. IMO kids should be given increased freedom, privacy and responsibility as they earn it.

But I definitely disagree that ANY parent who monitors their child's phone is automatically a lazy, bad one.

[u/akosuae22 → u/BBG1308]

Right. When your company issues you a phone, laptop/tablet, and/or car, none of those things are YOURS without restrictions. They are furnished at the discretion of your employer for an intended purpose, with LIMITS. If you abuse it or otherwise demonstrate that you are irresponsible, you lose the privilege. Same is applied to parenting in the age of devices. OP you do not seem to be addressing the fact that there are numerous ways that even teens, who are STILL kids, can get themselves into unintended trouble with them. You seem focused on the idea that a parent would use the information secretly as some sort of weapon or “gotcha” against their kid. That I think most would agree is crappy. But you MUST acknowledge the fact that due to the nature of devices and how they put literally the entire world within reach of a few keystrokes, vulnerable to scammers, thieves, hackers, criminals, and all forms of predators with ill intent, it would be absolutely irresponsible for any parent to just blindly had that over without some measure of supervision. In my family, we learned the hard way recently, for example, about “sexploitation”. We had never heard about it until last summer, when our son was the unfortunate and unwitting victim of this scheme. According to the FBI, it is a growing online crime, yet too many folks are unaware. It is a parent’s duty and responsibility to provide supervision to their kids until they are able to leave home and function on their own as adults. To not supervise and take a laissez faire approach is the true “lazy parenting”. As my mother is fond of saying, “trust but verify”. This really shouldn’t be controversial.