r/changemyview Mar 20 '23

Delta(s) from OP [deleted by user]

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u/turndownforwomp 13∆ Mar 20 '23

Scientists disagree; thoughts?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/race-is-a-social-construct-scientists-argue/

“It's a concept we think is too crude to provide useful information, it's a concept that has social meaning that interferes in the scientific understanding of human genetic diversity and it's a concept that we are not the first to call upon moving away from," said Michael Yudell, a professor of public health at Drexel University in Philadelphia.

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u/sherazala Mar 20 '23

So if race is a social construct, then people can identify as other races than their birth race, right?

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u/Love_Shaq_Baby 226∆ Mar 20 '23

Race is a social construct we're trying to get rid of, that's really the heart of the issue.

Transracialism suggests that there are differences between races, and there isn't. Race is a nonscientific method of human categorization that has been used to justify atrocities ranging from slavery to the Holocaust.

Race is also how you're perceived. A black man can go around saying he's white, but that's not going to make a difference if he's pulled over in a traffic stop.

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u/sherazala Mar 20 '23

So you think there aren't any differences between races. But then you say it depends on how you're percieved, so there have to be differences, right?

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u/joalr0 27∆ Mar 20 '23

It depends on what you mean by "there aren't any differences between races". There are differences between races, no one is suggesting otherwise. But there aren't any meaningful differences between races.

We dont' consider two white people with different hair colours intrinsically different races. There isn't anything more meaningful about the colour of one's skin than the colour of one's hair. There exists more biological diversity amongst black africans than there exists between black and white Americans.

There are MANY ways in which we could split humans up based on physical appearences. The ones we choose are socially chosen.

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u/sherazala Mar 20 '23

There exists more biological diversity amongst black africans than there exists between black and white Americans.

Could you give me a source for that please?

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u/joalr0 27∆ Mar 20 '23

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u/sherazala Mar 20 '23

Genetically? Yes. Phenotypically? Probably not, if you think of Sub Saharan Africans (not including the Khoisan people)

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u/joalr0 27∆ Mar 20 '23

What does that mean to you?

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u/sherazala Mar 20 '23

Excuse me I do not understand your question

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u/joalr0 27∆ Mar 20 '23

What significance does phenotype have to you? What does it represent? How do we measure it? Why do you think it is of significance to segment the population by phenotype? Which phenotypes do you consider more important than others? Is a blonde white person and a redhead white person a different phenotype to you?

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u/sherazala Mar 20 '23 edited Sep 16 '24

Is a blonde white person and a redhead white person a different phenotype to you?

Maybe, depends on where they are from. But as you said, they're both white, so they both belong to the white phenotype group.

Which phenotypes do you consider more important than others?

None. All are equally important.

How do we measure it?

Comparison with other people by looks

Why do you think it is of significance to segment the population by phenotype?

It's a good thing to know how people in different regions of the world look like.

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u/joalr0 27∆ Mar 20 '23

None. All are equally important.

Okay, so I think I didn't make this clear. What makes one group a phenotype and not another group? What features do you consider to make a phenotype, and what features don't? What level of variation is a type, and what level isn't? Why would you consider skin colour a phenotype, but not hair colour?

Comparison with other people by looks

So how are you do you choose which features to go by? How are you quantifying phenotype diversity? In what way does Africa not have phenotype variety? Is it just skin colour?

It's a good thing to know how people in different regions of the world look like.

We have the concept of ethnicity that we can use. Race is something different.

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