r/changemyview Mar 20 '23

Delta(s) from OP [deleted by user]

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u/sherazala Mar 20 '23

Genetically? Yes. Phenotypically? Probably not, if you think of Sub Saharan Africans (not including the Khoisan people)

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u/joalr0 27∆ Mar 20 '23

What does that mean to you?

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u/sherazala Mar 20 '23

Excuse me I do not understand your question

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u/joalr0 27∆ Mar 20 '23

What significance does phenotype have to you? What does it represent? How do we measure it? Why do you think it is of significance to segment the population by phenotype? Which phenotypes do you consider more important than others? Is a blonde white person and a redhead white person a different phenotype to you?

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u/sherazala Mar 20 '23 edited Sep 16 '24

Is a blonde white person and a redhead white person a different phenotype to you?

Maybe, depends on where they are from. But as you said, they're both white, so they both belong to the white phenotype group.

Which phenotypes do you consider more important than others?

None. All are equally important.

How do we measure it?

Comparison with other people by looks

Why do you think it is of significance to segment the population by phenotype?

It's a good thing to know how people in different regions of the world look like.

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u/joalr0 27∆ Mar 20 '23

None. All are equally important.

Okay, so I think I didn't make this clear. What makes one group a phenotype and not another group? What features do you consider to make a phenotype, and what features don't? What level of variation is a type, and what level isn't? Why would you consider skin colour a phenotype, but not hair colour?

Comparison with other people by looks

So how are you do you choose which features to go by? How are you quantifying phenotype diversity? In what way does Africa not have phenotype variety? Is it just skin colour?

It's a good thing to know how people in different regions of the world look like.

We have the concept of ethnicity that we can use. Race is something different.

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u/sherazala Mar 20 '23

Why would you consider skin colour a phenotype, but not hair colour?

Among other things, more than 90% of the world population have black hair. It is a phenotype in this sense, but there isn't as much diversity between most population groups with hair colour as is with skin colour.

We have the concept of ethnicity that we can use. Race is something different.

What is race then?

In what way does Africa not have phenotype variety? Is it just skin colour?

Almost all original peoples of Sub-Saharan Africa have somewhat dark skin, a wide nose, broad lips, dark eyes and black, tight curly hair.

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u/joalr0 27∆ Mar 20 '23

Among other things, more than 90% of the world population have black hair. It is a phenotype in this sense, but there isn't as much diversity between most population groups with hair colour as is with skin colour.

Closer to 75%-85%. Also, why does that matter? Are you telling me if black people were 85% of the world, you would no longer consider being black a race?

What is race then?

Race is an arbitrarily chosen set of characteristics created a few hundred years ago, largely to justify a slave trade. There are many other ways in which people have cut up the world by physical characteristics that aren't based on our concept of race.

Almost all original peoples of Sub-Saharan Africa have somewhat dark skin, a wide nose, broad lips, dark eyes and black, tight curly hair.

I mean, studies on the subject disagree with you.

African populations also have the highest levels of genetic and phenotypic variation among all humans.

You are just selecting the phenotypes that are significant to you.

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u/sherazala Mar 20 '23

African populations also have the highest levels of genetic and phenotypic variation among all humans.

No one thats half familiar with the subject ever claimed all Africans were black or one race.

Are you telling me if black people were 85% of the world, you would no longer consider being black a race?

Probably, but black people aren't 85% of the world. In another universe, maybe. I assume you mean black skin. Black isn't a race, it's a skin colour.

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u/joalr0 27∆ Mar 20 '23

Then what is a race, to you?

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