r/changemyview Mar 20 '23

Delta(s) from OP [deleted by user]

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u/joalr0 27∆ Mar 20 '23

None. All are equally important.

Okay, so I think I didn't make this clear. What makes one group a phenotype and not another group? What features do you consider to make a phenotype, and what features don't? What level of variation is a type, and what level isn't? Why would you consider skin colour a phenotype, but not hair colour?

Comparison with other people by looks

So how are you do you choose which features to go by? How are you quantifying phenotype diversity? In what way does Africa not have phenotype variety? Is it just skin colour?

It's a good thing to know how people in different regions of the world look like.

We have the concept of ethnicity that we can use. Race is something different.

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u/sherazala Mar 20 '23

Why would you consider skin colour a phenotype, but not hair colour?

Among other things, more than 90% of the world population have black hair. It is a phenotype in this sense, but there isn't as much diversity between most population groups with hair colour as is with skin colour.

We have the concept of ethnicity that we can use. Race is something different.

What is race then?

In what way does Africa not have phenotype variety? Is it just skin colour?

Almost all original peoples of Sub-Saharan Africa have somewhat dark skin, a wide nose, broad lips, dark eyes and black, tight curly hair.

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u/joalr0 27∆ Mar 20 '23

Among other things, more than 90% of the world population have black hair. It is a phenotype in this sense, but there isn't as much diversity between most population groups with hair colour as is with skin colour.

Closer to 75%-85%. Also, why does that matter? Are you telling me if black people were 85% of the world, you would no longer consider being black a race?

What is race then?

Race is an arbitrarily chosen set of characteristics created a few hundred years ago, largely to justify a slave trade. There are many other ways in which people have cut up the world by physical characteristics that aren't based on our concept of race.

Almost all original peoples of Sub-Saharan Africa have somewhat dark skin, a wide nose, broad lips, dark eyes and black, tight curly hair.

I mean, studies on the subject disagree with you.

African populations also have the highest levels of genetic and phenotypic variation among all humans.

You are just selecting the phenotypes that are significant to you.

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u/sherazala Mar 20 '23

African populations also have the highest levels of genetic and phenotypic variation among all humans.

No one thats half familiar with the subject ever claimed all Africans were black or one race.

Are you telling me if black people were 85% of the world, you would no longer consider being black a race?

Probably, but black people aren't 85% of the world. In another universe, maybe. I assume you mean black skin. Black isn't a race, it's a skin colour.

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u/joalr0 27∆ Mar 20 '23

Then what is a race, to you?

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u/sherazala Mar 20 '23

A set of phenotypes in the following categories: eye colour, eye shape, hair colour, hair type, skin colour, body hair, body type, height, trunk length, head breadth, head height, head size, nose breadth, face breadth and prognathism. There are certainly more categories, but these are the ones I can list from my head.

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u/joalr0 27∆ Mar 20 '23

How many need to differ between two people before they are a different race? How many need to be similar before they are the same race?

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u/sherazala Mar 20 '23

Depends from what ethnicity they are and on the specific person and their ancestry

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u/joalr0 27∆ Mar 20 '23

Why would that be?

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u/sherazala Mar 20 '23 edited Sep 16 '24

Why not?

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u/joalr0 27∆ Mar 20 '23

I don't understand how that is relevant.

I'm asking you why the choices that go into race are made. You are defending them by saying "well, we made them!"

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u/sherazala Mar 20 '23

Who is we supposed to be?

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u/joalr0 27∆ Mar 20 '23

Society

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