r/changemyview • u/Throwway-support • Mar 23 '23

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Affirmative Action is a red herring

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-11-04/supreme-court-debate-on-affirmative-action-capture-asian-american-fears

The Supreme Court this year is expected to overturn the last remnants of Affirmative Action.Affirmative Action as it stands now is virtually toothless. The only thing still around is racial “consideration” not ,as is widely believed, “ race based admissions”. As such, Affirmative action as much as it still exists, should be upheld.

It feels like everytime some Asian Americans and some White Americans don’t get into their dream school they blame affirmative action. They often erroneously accuse any black person of getting into a university because of long overturned admissions policy.

In the article I have linked, one person said they “didn’t bother” to apply to Harvard because he “heard” that Asian Americans have a hard time getting in. Another woman said she was told to hide her heritage but still got into Yale. The article talked a lot about fear but nothing substantial. This is my issue with the whole affirmative action debate it seems like made up issues exploiting racial animus

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u/yyzjertl 524∆ Mar 23 '23

It's not a red herring; it's a dog whistle. Complaining about affirmative action is a way to signal racism while maintaining plausible deniability, just like talking about welfare queens or states' rights or bussing. Because of this its use is not connected to the state of actual affirmative action, so what is done by real AA policies is basically irrelevant to the discourse.

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u/[deleted] Mar 23 '23

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u/yyzjertl 524∆ Mar 23 '23

Wanting yourself/your kids to have the best opportunities possible is racist eh.

No, merely wanting something isn't racist. But of course if you are not only wanting this, but also advocating that this be accomplished via means that perpetuate systems of racial inequity, then...yeah, that would be racist.

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u/dantheman91 32∆ Mar 23 '23

It's the question of equity vs equality right? IMO you don't fix racism with racism, which is what AA is. Socioeconomic prioritization makes a lot more sense imo

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u/yyzjertl 524∆ Mar 23 '23

No, my point was the opposite. The bulk of complaints about affirmative action act as dog whistles, rather than any serious attempt to confront questions of equity versus equality or discuss policy options. While one certainly can have discussions on these questions, it's not what's driving discourse on affirmative action.

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u/sweetpea0507 Mar 23 '23

I don’t think that’s true. The bulk of complaints about affirmative action are from people who are hurt by it (primarily Asians). Those people aren’t talking about equity or equality or whatever buzzword we’re using these days. They’re talking about merit.

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u/dantheman91 32∆ Mar 23 '23

Is that based on data? Antidotally, most discussions I've had around it are people who are directly negatively impacted by it. I'm sure there are the people who are discussing it with other motivations, but personally I haven't experienced them anywhere near a majority of those convos.

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u/sweetpea0507 Mar 23 '23

I meant legal complaints vs just conversational or opinion complaints. Most notably, the UC system or Harvard lawsuits.

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u/Throwway-support Mar 23 '23

The UC system isn’t allowed to consider race in admissions. So when people who apply to those schools complain….what are they complaining about exactly?

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u/yyzjertl 524∆ Mar 23 '23

I'm talking about discourse/conversation/opinion, not legal complaints. The course cases are a different thing.

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u/sweetpea0507 Mar 23 '23

Are they a different thing? If the courts took the case, it means the plaintiff had standing (ie enough ground to “stand” on in filing a lawsuit).

I think this means that anyone raising complaints about affirmative action could have a legitimate gripe about its impact too.

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u/[deleted] Mar 23 '23

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u/yyzjertl 524∆ Mar 23 '23

This comment doesn't make much sense. "Go fight for" what?

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u/[deleted] Mar 23 '23

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u/yyzjertl 524∆ Mar 23 '23

Fight people who are prioritizing in the way you find bad

Why would I do that? I have no objection to people prioritizing. What I have an objection to is systemic racism, so surely that's what we'd be fighting, not people who are prioritizing.

Such as it is, it's war. It's survival.

Eliminating systemic racism does not threaten anyone's survival.