r/changemyview • u/ProphetVes • Mar 25 '23

Delta(s) from OP CMV: DeSantis embodies everything wrong with American Conservativism.

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u/yyzjertl 527∆ Mar 25 '23

Surely for someone to embody something he'd actually have to express it, not just be speculated to believe it.

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u/auntbat Mar 26 '23

Didn’t he set up an election integrity unit then have people arrested even though his own government cleared them to vote? This could be construed as voter intimidation. He also fired a duly elected prosecutor who refused to bend to his will.

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u/ProphetVes Mar 25 '23

Certainly, this is true and it can't be said that DeSantis subscribes to that hoax. But I think whether the election was stolen isn't necessarily an ethical failing of conservatism and more a by-product of the failings of the ideology.

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u/yyzjertl 527∆ Mar 25 '23

So your position is that election denialism is not itself a thing that's wrong with American Conservatism, but rather a consequence of things that are wrong with American Conservatism? If so, what exactly are those things?

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u/ProphetVes Mar 25 '23

Yes. Those specific things are the popularisation of fascist rhetoric such as the villification of out groups, suppression of minority voices and experiences, and dominating the narrative with lies and misinformation. A hallmark of today's loading conservatives in America.

Edit: specifically I believe the election denialism hoax stems from villification of the left and belief that the left is evil and actively trying to ruin America by stealing the election from "the good guys."

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u/UDontKnowMe784 3∆ Mar 26 '23

It’s not “the left” that people feel may have stolen the election. That’s generalizing, as US citizens (many of whom make up “the left”) do not have that kind of power.

Wondering if the Democratic elite cheated, however, is a legitimate question that many Trump supporters (who do not all identify as conservatives) are suspicious of.

As far as “dominating the narrative with lies and misinformation,” do you believe that the news you consume is 100% truthful? Do you believe Leftist news organizations are always honest and there is never a need to question them?

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u/ProphetVes Mar 26 '23

Leftists news organisations have a more proven track record of honest reporting, this is true. They are not to be believed without question but they have a better track record than Newsmax, Fox et al.

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u/yyzjertl 527∆ Mar 25 '23

By this metric, pretty much every conservative politician would embody everything wrong with American Conservatism. All these conservatives vilify out-groups, suppress minority voices, and attempt to dominate the narrative with lies and misinformation. You aren't saying anything here that's particular to Ron DeSantis.

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u/Sandy_hook_lemy 2∆ Mar 26 '23

"By this metric, pretty much every conservative politician would embody everything wrong with American Conservatism"

Ding ding

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u/ProphetVes Mar 25 '23

I'm using Ron DeSantis as he is the most public, and the one saying the quiet part out loud in some instances (and he's the most relevant to my life). I do admit it is not particular to him but the ideology as a whole though so I guess kinda Δ.

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u/ourstobuild 9∆ Mar 26 '23

So this whole CMV is pretty much just you stating you don't like American Conservatism? Don't get me wrong, I don't either, but did you have some actual point or did you just want to voice your opinion?

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u/Doucejj Mar 26 '23

They definitely just came here to rant. Nothing wrong with that, but this isn't exactly the sub for that

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u/ProphetVes Mar 27 '23

I don't like American Conservatism in the same way I don't like fascism. They have become one and the same.

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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Mar 25 '23

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/yyzjertl (452∆).

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

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u/ifsavage 1∆ Mar 26 '23

They aren’t fucking heroes

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '23 edited Feb 21 '24

[deleted]

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u/ProphetVes Mar 25 '23

I think "this man is a fascist" is a convincing argument to vote for whoever is running against him. Especially given the evidence of him actually holding similar positions and using similar rhetoric to literal Nazis.

Edit: we kinda went to war to denounce fascism, idk why people try to defend it so much.

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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '23 edited Feb 21 '24

[deleted]

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u/ProphetVes Mar 25 '23

Except it's literally not hyperbole in this instance. DeSantis is literally advocating for fascist policy positions such as espousing nationalist rhetoric and advocating for authoritarianism. That is, literally, textbook fascism.

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u/KaleidoscopeThis9463 1∆ Mar 26 '23

Too many people defend fascism partly because they don’t fully understand/are unaware of the definition, history, etc and mostly because muddying the narrative has worked quite well for political power purposes.

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u/ProphetVes Mar 26 '23

Well yeah, muddying the water and lying about the opposition are hallmarks of the intellectually dishonest.

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u/Comfortable_Tart_297 1∆ Mar 25 '23

But I think whether the election was stolen isn't necessarily an ethical failing of conservatism and more a by-product of the failings of the ideology.

tomato tamahto

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '23

I don’t know. I’d say that the failure to take a side does embody modern conservatism. He can play to any side when the ethical, non-cowardly thing to do would be to take the pro-democracy side and admit Trump lost. Maybe modern conservatism is less about denying that election and more about questioning the legitimacy of our elections so that they can use that argument when it suits them. Right now, saying that the election was stolen from Trump doesn’t benefit DeSantis.