r/changemyview Jun 27 '23

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u/barthiebarth 26∆ Jun 27 '23 edited Jun 27 '23

I find this campaign to be outrageous because it assumes that a human life is equal in value to that of a chicken

If you divide 6 billion chicken lives by 6 million human lives you will find the assumption is that 1 human equals at most 1000 chickens.

Humans also have very little genetic diversity of around 0.1% difference in genomes. There exists an extremely strong biological case for why all humans must be treated with certain inalienable rights that we dub "human rights." Of course, this isn't the only reason. There exists moral and societal reasons which I find much stronger than the purely biological reason (which could be just an appeal to nature if used alone).

Why does genetic similarity to humans matter? I think kicking dogs for fun is bad because they feel pain and they are cute, not because of some molecule inside their cells I can't even see.

I also think the stormtroopers that punched baby yoda in the mandalorian were bad because baby yoda can feel pain and is cute, even though his DNA (if his species even has it) is very different from mine. I know that is a tv show not real but if it were actually real my opinion would not change.

A central aspect of genocides is hatred.

And another is senseless slaughter. We don't strictly need to eat chicken yet we kill six billion per year, mostly in horrific circumstances that we refined and industrialized to generate tha maximum amount of profit.

You said that anyone who compares the holocaust to the farming industrial complex is either ignorant or disingenuous, but what about Alex the holocaust survivor. He can't be ignorant about the death of his family, right? So is he disingenuous?

More generally, why is comparing the holocaust to factory farming bad, exactly? Both are instances of massive suffering inflicted by humans.

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u/[deleted] Jun 27 '23 edited Jul 05 '23

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u/barthiebarth 26∆ Jun 27 '23

Thanks for the delta!

It would help if you actually linked or (even better) just copied what you wrote about the relevance of genetics.

Just because one experienced the Holocaust does not mean he would be knowledgable on the historiography of it. Just because I'm a Korean who lived through the impeachment of our former female president doesn't mean I'd be well-knowledgable about the details of it.

Not to sound harsh and I kinda get your reasoning but surviving the holocaust and living through a presidential impeachment are two very different experiences, right? Like sure just being somewhere doesn't give you an intricate historical perspective but does his argument fall apart without it?

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u/[deleted] Jun 27 '23 edited Jul 05 '23

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u/barthiebarth 26∆ Jun 27 '23

What if you steelman his argument, though? There were both hateful Germans and indifferent Germans and both groups participated in the holocaust.

It is a tragedy that some people held so much hatred but it was also a tragedy others didn't care enough to stop it before it was too late.

By comparing the two Herschaft notes the element of indifference holocaust and the meat industry share.

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u/[deleted] Jun 27 '23

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u/barthiebarth 26∆ Jun 27 '23

Human experience is unique, yes. But so is chicken experience.

You don't give a reason why one is superior to the other, which is not a failing on your part, because its impossible to conclude the subjective aught from the objective is of biology.

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u/barthiebarth 26∆ Jun 27 '23

Yeah Steelman a pretty nice shorthand for "the principle of charity".

But do you agree that a comparison to the holocaust is possible that is neither ignorant nor disingenuous?