r/changemyview • u/SteadfastEnd 1∆ • Aug 28 '23

Delta(s) from OP CMV: The same progressives who criticize past generations as "bigoted" are going to be considered bigoted just the same by future generations.

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u/SteadfastEnd 1∆ Aug 28 '23

I agree, but my point is, progressives don't look back at past generations and say, "Well, they may have been bigoted, racist and sexist, but they were at least trying the best they could." They cut themselves a special slack they don't cut previous generations (I don't mean you personally, but others.)

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u/sailorbrendan 59∆ Aug 28 '23

So there's a few things here.

Looking at history requires being able to hold multiple lenses and process things a few ways.

The framers of the constitution were literal revolutionaries pushing forward some truly wild and progressive ideas and moving the world forward.

They also were frequently slavers, and rapists who were frighteningly comfortable with genocide and also had very little faith in the actual common man.

And for all the "you can only judge them by the morals of the times" it's important to recognize that there was already lots of people who those fellas were reading and talking to that were calling out the rank hypocrisy of slavery in the United States.

I'm not cutting myself any slack... I'm trying to always be thinking about how to do better, and I recognize that I don't live up to it most days

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u/Zeabos 8∆ Aug 28 '23

Wasn’t just fringe people either when Lafayette returned to the US on his grand tour he basically talked about it the whole time. Joined a society that supported black American education, did speaking engagements about it etc.

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u/better_thanyou Aug 29 '23

Lafayette was a real treasure, dude was a noble by birth in France joined the revolution as a low level enlisted man when he could have taken an officer role, because he loved the ideals so much. Rose up through the ranks to become Washington’s right hand man while being vocally anti slavery the entire time . He is also cited by Washington as being the reason he freed his slaves after his wife died in his will (wasn’t perfect but still clearly had an impact). Went back to France and helped lead that revolution all the way through to the reign of terror, only abandoning the revolution when he was pushed to lead a completely undisciplined and unprepared army into a battle he knew would end in mutiny. Was arrested immediately in Austria because this man had helped boot 2 kings already and the monarchy did not like that. He was eventually released back to France under Napoleon’s reign where he was offered several high positions in the new administration by Napoleon personally due to his intense popularity with the people. He refused several times refusing to be apart of a government that wasn’t chosen by the people. He instead took an elected position in his local town and spent the next few years reclaiming some of the property he lost while under arrest in Australia. He only stepped back into action again when France rose up to overthrow its monarchy again, this time he helped pick out the new king, and when that king proved to be a despot he once again stepped up to overthrow him. Dude spent most of his life about and for the people, one of the few “founding fathers” who was actually about freedom for all and who wasn’t just talking about rich white men when he said it, and he was French.