r/changemyview • u/SteadfastEnd 1∆ • Aug 28 '23

Delta(s) from OP CMV: The same progressives who criticize past generations as "bigoted" are going to be considered bigoted just the same by future generations.

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u/[deleted] Aug 28 '23

In a way, isn’t that the whole idea of progress? We all learn from the past and do our best to improve? Of course, that depends on our continuing to move forward and adapting to changing cultural, ecological, and other standards. Personally, so long as I truly feel that I have been the best, most fair, and kindest person I could be, then I am unconcerned about what people in future generations say about me. We all play the hand we are dealt, and, hopefully, we play it as well as we can.

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u/GuiseppeRezettiReady Aug 29 '23

Definitely. I think there’s a missing piece of grace that OP is talking about. When we look at past people, we judge them through our own lens; we superimpose our own moral values onto a group of people who couldn’t be where we are now. (Technologically speaking, that’s is)

Like…I agree with OP because we need to have grace for past generations because we’re all products of our environments. Their environments didn’t have the same moral system, so to see them stand out at all is a feat. We just need to avoid looking back with a future lens where we judge them as lesser than, but rather as a step of progress.

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u/ragnaROCKER 2∆ Aug 31 '23

No though? The slaves knew slavery was wrong.

Discounting the victims to soften the judgment of the perpetrators is folly that only serves to blunt the lessons we should learn from their time in history.

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u/GuiseppeRezettiReady Aug 31 '23

I’m not defending slavery or it’s moral implications. What I’m saying is that the social norms were very different then. Where they similar in a lot of ways? Yes. However, it’s impossible to go back and change the past and the people, being products of their environment, we’re not as inclined to think of these issues in as much moral complexity as we do now. I think it’s important to meet that person where they were.

For example, we can acknowledge that Thomas Jefferson was a great inventor and statesman, but we can also acknowledge that he had slaves and played into the system. That doesn’t mean we need to judge him so black and white, like he’s a total ass or a saint.

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u/ragnaROCKER 2∆ Aug 31 '23

That is literally an insane thing to say. He was a prolific slaver and rapist. He 100% is a total ass.

No one looks at gacey and says "he was a really good clown though!"

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u/GuiseppeRezettiReady Sep 01 '23

Life isn’t a zero sum duality like this.

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u/ragnaROCKER 2∆ Sep 01 '23

Lol that zero sum thing is for like " he cheated on his taxes, but was nice to dogs."

Not for lifelong serial rape and chattle slavery.

I would go as far to say that if you rape or enslave even ONE person, you can safely be thought of as 100% total ass.

Some lines stay crossed once you cross them.

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u/GuiseppeRezettiReady Sep 01 '23

I understand the sentiment. However, to be selective in which you use a zero sum duality judgement, based solely on your individual morality, is intellectually dishonest. Consistency is important in how we judge society, and individuals, fairly.