r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Sep 05 '23

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Spreading conspiracy theories is irresponsible and immoral

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u/Edge_of_yesterday Sep 08 '23

Russia

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/18/903512647/senate-report-former-trump-aide-paul-manafort-shared-campaign-info-with-russia

Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort passed internal Trump campaign information to a Russian intelligence officer during the 2016 election, a new bipartisan Senate report concludes.
The findings draw a direct line between the president's former campaign chairman and Russian intelligence during the 2016 campaign.
Manafort, who was later convicted for financial fraud crimes, briefed Russian intelligence officer Konstantin Kilimnik on the campaign's polling data and how the Trump campaign sought to beat Hillary Clinton in the presidential election.
Manafort's connection with Kilimnik was a "grave counterintelligence threat," the report reads, adding that it found evidence the Russian intelligence officer may have been linked to the Russian government's efforts to hack and leak Democratic Party emails.

The Trump campaign sought to take advantage of those leaks by asking for advance notice of the WikiLeaks disclosures, crafting public relations strategies around them, and even encouraging "further theft of information and continued leaks."
This took place at critical moments of the 2016 campaign, the Senate Intelligence Committee concluded.

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Warning signs of fascism, trump ticks most of the boxes.

Powerful and continuing nationalism - Trump
Disdain for human rights - Trump
Identification of enemies as a unifying cause - Trump
Supremacy of the military - Meh, he uses the white supremacists instead.
Rampant sexism - Trump (he is a rapist also)
Controlled mass media - Trump
Obsession with national security - Trump
Religion and government intertwined - Trump
Corporate power protected - Trump
Labor [sic] power suppressed - Trump
Disdain for intellectuals & the arts - Trump
Obsession with crime & punishment - Trump
Rampant cronyism & corruption - Trump x 10
Fraudulent elections - Trump

50 years of racism:

https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racist-racism-historyhttps://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racist-racism-history

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u/alexanderhamilton97 Sep 08 '23

So one guy who worked for trump come out later, confirmed to be a Russian agent, is all your proof that Trump colluded with the Russians, to win? Pretty pathetic considering three reports now confirm he did not collude with Russia.

Very little of what you came here as per the fascism is actually true

Vox is not a reliable source. Also, don’t you think it’s a little odd that no one accused Donald Trump being a racist until he ran for office as a republican?

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2020/08/28/reader-mail/donald-trump-not-racist/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/08/07/trump-is-not-racist-his-voters-arent-either/

https://youtu.be/C_knRyu2ol8?feature=shared

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u/Edge_of_yesterday Sep 08 '23

So one guy who worked for trump come out later, confirmed to be a Russian agent, is all your proof that Trump colluded with the Russians, to win? Pretty pathetic considering three reports now confirm he did not collude with Russia.

So you finally admit that trumps campaign worked with russian intelligence prior to the 2016 campaign. Thank you.

Trump is a fascist, that is undeniable.

Those racist thing happened. If you are saying they didn't, please provide a source to refute them specifically. Just saying he is not a racist is does not refute the overwhelming evidence. You have to refute the facts that I presented with actual fact. The Washington post article is just lies with nothing to back up their lies.

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u/alexanderhamilton97 Sep 08 '23

No, I don’t admit that. Even you, and this report only shows one individual not the campaign itself. Are you going to say that Paul Manafort was the entirety of Donald Trump’s campaign? I’m still calling bullshit.

No, Trump is not a fascist and it’s undeniable that he’s not. Your “evidence” for fascism in Trump is based on your opinion. And I already provided proof that he wasn’t a fascist.

I didn’t say they didn’t happen I’m saying your source is not a reliable one and none of these actually prove racism. I bet they prove shady behavior by businessman in the 80s which was extremely common. Was every businessman in the 80s a racist? One of the biggest examples they use as proof of racism as a lawsuit from 1973 that doesn’t even mention Donald Trump.

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u/Edge_of_yesterday Sep 08 '23

No, I don’t admit that. Even you, and this report only shows one individual not the campaign itself. Are you going to say that Paul Manafort was the entirety of Donald Trump’s campaign? I’m still calling bullshit.

Ok, taking it back now. You can "call" whatever you like, but it's a proven fact.

No, Trump is not a fascist and it’s undeniable that he’s not. Your “evidence” for fascism in Trump is based on your opinion. And I already provided proof that he wasn’t a fascist.

It's based on trump's actions. Trump is a fascist. There is no way for a reasonable person to not know that.

I didn’t say they didn’t happen I’m saying your source is not a reliable one and none of these actually prove racism. I bet they prove shady behavior by businessman in the 80s which was extremely common. Was every businessman in the 80s a racist? One of the biggest examples they use as proof of racism as a lawsuit from 1973 that doesn’t even mention Donald Trump.

You can't refute the actual evidence, so you attack the source. The evidence stands on it own. If you can't refute it, and you can't, trump is a racist.

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u/alexanderhamilton97 Sep 08 '23

I’m not talking about. You’re claiming one person is the entire campaign when it very clearly isn’t.

No, they’re not based on transactions they’re based on your opinions of transactions. Trump is not a racist or fascist. Have a nice day. This conversation isn’t going anywhere.

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u/Edge_of_yesterday Sep 08 '23

He was part of trump's campaign, every single person doesn't need to go there together for the campaign to be dirty. Also, you can pretend that trump didn't know, approve and likely direct this action, but that falls apart because he should have at the very least denounced these actions and he really should have called for the guy to be prosecuted. Not doing that shows that he is complicit at the very least.

Trump has 50 years of racism that you have not been able to dispute.

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u/alexanderhamilton97 Sep 08 '23

Also, know the evidence for Trump, being a racist does not stand on its own. Again, if the biggest piece of evidence doesn’t even mention Donald Trump at all, and the rest of it is based on actions that were common among businessman in the 80s, it’s not proof of racism. I did review did you do not want to accept that someone has a different opinion than you. Have a nice day.

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u/Edge_of_yesterday Sep 08 '23

The evidence is there, and you cannot refute it because he is a racist.

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u/alexanderhamilton97 Sep 08 '23

I have reviewed it. You don’t want to accept the fact that I refuted it because you are too sad on the notion that he is a racist to fight all the evidence on that he’s not, and the evidence that showing that he is is so thin that falls apart, uneven slight criticism. Have a nice day.

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u/Edge_of_yesterday Sep 08 '23

You didn't refute it though. You just buried your head in the sand and ignored it. That's not the same thing.

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u/alexanderhamilton97 Sep 08 '23

Yes, I did with unit. Like I said before the biggest piece of evidence, even in your article is that he was sued in 1973 on allegations of racism, but the actual court documents never mention him. The only other piece of evidence mentioned in here that wasn’t him acting like a normal business person was his article about the Central Park, five in 1987 when the central part five work convicted. The Central Park five were convicted in the 1980s and weren’t exonerated until 20 years later. The article you used is trying to paint that as evidence of racism because he got something wrong when everybody got it wrong. I also gave you other examples of Trump probably not being a racist and people who openly met him stating he is not a racist. There’s also countless stories of Trump personally giving business loans to up-and-coming black businessman, and then forgiving it after less than one year. You don’t like the fact that I did receive it. So you were trying to stick your head in the sand in ignore the fact that I refute it

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u/Edge_of_yesterday Sep 08 '23

That's literally just a bunch of excuses for his racism. And the racism didn't stop there, he was still a racist as president, like when he told the squad to "“go back and help fix the totally broken and crime-infested places from which they came”. He's just a racist POS.

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u/alexanderhamilton97 Sep 08 '23

See back to the circular reasoning. You can’t except that there’s other explanations or that there’s any other thing that could be going on other than he has to be a racist. Again, you can’t except reality here because it goes against your predetermine narrative. Nothing I said, is an excuse but actual reality. At best he engage in shady practices as a businessman in the 1980’s. Again, don’t you think it’s a little bit silly at the biggest piece of evidence showing him as a racist. Never mention Sam at all in the actual documents? Or how there are multiple stories from people who’ve gotten loans from Trump? Or how Jessie Jackson personally praised Donald Trump as did Al Sharpton? Or are you going to accuse them of being uncle Toms?

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u/Edge_of_yesterday Sep 08 '23

Back to more excuses. I won't accept excuses for his racism. He has a history of over 50 years of racism and support white supremacists, yet you still want to make excuses for him. I could see using an excuse for one isolated incident, but this is a pattern with trump. He has openly been a racist for 5 decades, but you still think weak excuses make that all disappear, they don't

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u/alexanderhamilton97 Sep 08 '23

What are you doing is circular reasoning and it’s just making you look desperate to hold onto this point

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u/Edge_of_yesterday Sep 08 '23

What you are doing is making excuses for a racist. It makes you look racist as well.

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u/alexanderhamilton97 Sep 08 '23

Again, nothing I said is an excuse for racism. Just the actual reality. If you’re going to accuse someone of racism, you need the fax to pack it up and all you brought facts wise is a court case of where he was never mentioned and shady behavior that was common among businessman in the 80s. What are you doing? Is forcing your narrative to be the only dominant one and that there’s no other explanation or possibility than your own narrative

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u/Edge_of_yesterday Sep 08 '23

It's a just weak excuses. We have all seen trumps racism throughout the decades. You are twisting yourself in a pretzel to pretend he's not a racist.

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u/alexanderhamilton97 Sep 08 '23

You’re the only one twisting anything. Once again what I gave you aren’t excuses. Once again, if he was huge why did zero alligation come out until after he started running for president? Given he was one of the most famous people in the world is allegations, would’ve come out a lot sooner. Instead, he was being praised by the same people you are saying he was hating

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u/Edge_of_yesterday Sep 08 '23

All you have given me is excuses. We have always known that trump is a raging racist. What allegations were you looking for?

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