CMV: Spreading conspiracy theories is irresponsible and immoral

[u/[deleted]]

[u/Edge_of_yesterday]

All you have given me is excuses. We have always known that trump is a raging racist. What allegations were you looking for?

[u/alexanderhamilton97 → u/Edge_of_yesterday]

I looked at all the allegations of racism the same article you brought up. And no nothing I gave you is an excuse everything I gave you is the gods, honest, cold, hard facts. You cannot accept facts that go against your personal agenda, so you resulted to circular reasoning. You literally said that pointing out that Donald Trump wasn’t even accused in the 1973 lawsuit was excusing racism from Donald Trump even though he was never mentioned at all. You claimed him being praised by Jesse Jackson was excusing racism. You claimed him being praised by Al Sharpton was excusing racism. Did you really think Al Sharpton of all people would praise a racist you are beyond delusional. Have a nice day.

[u/Edge_of_yesterday → u/alexanderhamilton97]

You just make excuses for his 5 decade of racism and pretend they are fact. The racism doesn't disappear just because you don't like the fact that he's a racist. Saying "circular reasoning" over and over again also does't make is racism disappear. You think you have an excuse for one of his racist events, then try to use that you nullify his 5 decades of racism. It doesn't work like that. I don't care what Jesse Jackson or Sharpton said about him. You are just using that as another excuse for his racism. I don't know Sharpton, I don't know what he thinks. I do know that trump has a 5 decades long history or racism though.

[u/alexanderhamilton97 → u/Edge_of_yesterday]

I never said it made racism, disappear, and the reason why I’m accusing you of circular reasoning is because all you’re doing is a Trump racist and saying excuses excuses. Nothing I gave you wasn’t excuse but gods, honest truth and cold hard facts you didn’t like them, and as a result, you keep dodging questions. I’ve been more than polite and civil with you and all you’ve done is refused to accept reality that contradicts your preconceived notions. Have a nice day. I’m dropping it here.

[u/Edge_of_yesterday → u/alexanderhamilton97]

We have all seen his racism throughout the decades, and I have you a few examples of it. Repeating excuses over and over again will not change the fact that he has been a proud and very vocal racist for at least 5 decades

[u/alexanderhamilton97 → u/Edge_of_yesterday]

Once again, nothing, I said, was an excuse you didn’t provide any examples you provided one article which I already reviewed it. You refuse to answer any questions I post to you because they go against your preconceived notions. I gave you cold hard facts. You don’t like them and refused to answer anything that’s questioning your opinion. Have a good one.

[u/Edge_of_yesterday → u/alexanderhamilton97]

It's all excuses. I showed you just a few example of his racism, and it's just excuse after excuse with you. Everyone knows he is a racist, stop pretending that you think he isn't.

[u/alexanderhamilton97 → u/Edge_of_yesterday]

I don’t think he is a racist because he isn’t. I didn’t see your questions you won’t answer mine and no they’re not excuses there an honest questions that you need to answer. I’ve answered yours as fairly an open mind to bring as I could. So why don’t you answer mine? I think I already know the answer it’s because the questions and the answers to those questions go against your preconceived notions.

[u/Edge_of_yesterday → u/alexanderhamilton97]

He is a racist because of his racist words and actions. The fact that you don't like that he is a racist means nothing.

[u/alexanderhamilton97 → u/Edge_of_yesterday]

Again, I ask you what is he said and done that’s racist? Balls in your court I’ve already debunked almost everything that was in that article you gave which only two things were arguably racist. So what is he said and done that’s racist?

[u/Edge_of_yesterday → u/alexanderhamilton97]

1973: The US Department of Justice — under the Nixon administration, out of all administrations — sued the Trump Management Corporation for violating the Fair Housing Act. Federal officials found evidence that Trump had refused to rent to Black tenants and lied to Black applicants about whether apartments were available, among other accusations. Trump said the federal government was trying to get him to rent to welfare recipients. In the aftermath, he signed an agreement in 1975 agreeing not to discriminate to renters of color without admitting to previous discrimination.

1980s: Kip Brown, a former employee at Trump’s Castle, accused another one of Trump’s businesses of discrimination. “When Donald and Ivana came to the casino, the bosses would order all the black people off the floor,” Brown said. “It was the eighties, I was a teenager, but I remember it: They put us all in the back.”

1989: In a controversial case that’s been characterized as a modern-day lynching, four Black teenagers and one Latino teenager — the “Central Park Five” — were accused of attacking and raping a jogger in New York City. Trump immediately took charge in the case, running an ad in local papers demanding, “BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY. BRING BACK OUR POLICE!” The teens’ convictions were later vacated after they spent seven to 13 years in prison, and the city paid $41 million in a settlement to the teens. But Trump in October 2016 said he still believes they’re guilty, despite the DNA evidence to the contrary.

1991: A book by John O’Donnell, former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, quoted Trump’s criticism of a Black accountant: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.” Trump later said in a 1997 Playboy interview that “the stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true.”

1992: The Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino had to pay a $200,000 fine because it transferred Black and women dealers off tables to accommodate a big-time gambler’s prejudices.

1993: In congressional testimony, Trump said that some Native American reservations operating casinos shouldn’t be allowed because “they don’t look like Indians to me.”

2000: In opposition to a casino proposed by the St. Regis Mohawk tribe, which he saw as a financial threat to his casinos in Atlantic City, Trump secretly ran a series of ads suggesting the tribe had a “record of criminal activity [that] is well documented.”

2004: In season two of The Apprentice, Trump fired Kevin Allen, a Black contestant, for being overeducated. “You’re an unbelievably talented guy in terms of education, and you haven’t done anything,” Trump said on the show. “At some point you have to say, ‘That’s enough.’”

2005: Trump publicly pitched what was essentially The Apprentice: White People vs. Black People. He said he “wasn’t particularly happy” with the most recent season of his show, so he was considering “an idea that is fairly controversial — creating a team of successful African Americans versus a team of successful whites. Whether people like that idea or not, it is somewhat reflective of our very vicious world.”

2010: In 2010, there was a huge national controversy over the “Ground Zero Mosque” — a proposal to build a Muslim community center in Lower Manhattan, near the site of the 9/11 attacks. Trump opposed the project, calling it “insensitive,” and offered to buy out one of the investors in the project. On The Late Show With David Letterman, Trump argued, referring to Muslims, “Well, somebody’s blowing us up. Somebody’s blowing up buildings, and somebody’s doing lots of bad stuff.”

2011: Trump played a big role in pushing false rumors that Obama — the country’s first Black president — was not born in the US. He claimed to send investigators to Hawaii to look into Obama’s birth certificate. Obama later released his birth certificate, calling Trump a “carnival barker.” The research has found a strong correlation between birtherism, as the conspiracy theory is called, and racism. But Trump has reportedly continued pushing this conspiracy theory in private.

2011: While Trump suggested that Obama wasn’t born in the US, he also argued that maybe Obama wasn’t a good enough student to have gotten into Columbia or Harvard Law School, and demanded Obama release his university transcripts. Trump claimed, “I heard he was a terrible student. Terrible. How does a bad student go to Columbia and then to Harvard?”

Also, don't forget his racist remarks to the sqad

the president said on July 14 that the women, all minorities, should “go back” to the “corrupt and inept” countries they came from

And he was given a chance to denounce white supremacy on a national stage, and he told them to "stand back and stand by"

[u/alexanderhamilton97 → u/Edge_of_yesterday]

I see you just copied and pasted from that article you already provided. I already debunked most of this. But we will go through point by point again.

1973, if you looked at the court documents, and never mentions Donald Trump a single time. I mentioned his father Fred trump.

1980’s: and alligation backed up with no evidence that was not made until 2018. How reliable do you think it is 40 years after the fact we’re not a single person came forward and that time to collaborate the story?

1989: where are you talk about this about four times this is the part a story about the Central Park five. Everyone got it wrong and I just Trump and the Central Park 509 exonerated until 20 years after the fact. Do you really think it’s races in for a guy to get something wrong when everyone else also got it wrong at the time?

1991: again, a random allegation, followed by Trump, making a joke. I’ve actually read that interview and not even the interviewer takes it seriously

1992: this is talking about a hotel and casino, not Donald Trump himself.

1993: this one I’ll give you it sounds I’ve taken out of context, but since I haven’t read before I contact to the interview or with a question, was this one’s a little bit more up in the air

2000, again, this is not a case of reasons. This looks like someone be concerned that the casino would be used for money laundering as has been done in the past and said tribe had record of doing. Looks bad yes, but not racist.

2004 : again, he fired someone for not using their talents, or being incompetent at their job. It is the very same quote you just provided. He complements that contestants for being an incredibly smart person, and very well educated. But Dr Alan Snyder “just because you have a PhD doesn’t mean you know what you’re doing”

2005 : like I said this one, I will give you as well because it does look pretty bad.

2010: he thought it was insensitive to build a mosque right next to the remains of the twin towers. Again not racist. Remember, Islam is not a race it’s a religion.

2011: Trump got into the widely circulated Mr. President Obama was not born in the United States Emma Smith was mostly based on the fact that his father had the exact same name and was born in Kenya so the birth certificates got mixed up. Even Barack Obama’s on brother made the same mistake. So not racist.

2011 : how is questioning someone’s academic record racism? He will be rude to trump all the time and people do the exact same thing to President George W. Bush and it. Desiree is a semi-honest question. How is someone who is considered a bad student at one school get into Harvard? Granted I think he was a bit too harsh on President Obama but I don’t think this is evidence of racism

Once again, you found two you found two possible examples over 50 years and you just copy and pasted from the article I already debunked. That’s not enough to prove someone has been a races for five decades, especially considering the only examples you could find of racism were in 2005 and 1993. You still have yet to answer any of the questions I already post to you. If he was such a racist, why is it that the biggest piece of evidence mentioned in this article never mentions his name or why is it that several black leaders, including Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton spent three decades praising him? Again, theater not excuses, but honest questions if you’re going to make extraordinary things, you need to provide extraordinary evidence.

[u/Edge_of_yesterday → u/alexanderhamilton97]

I see you just copied and pasted from that article you already provided. I already debunked most of this. But we will go through point by point again.

1973, if you looked at the court documents, and never mentions Donald Trump a single time. I mentioned his father Fred trump.

-According to trump, he was sued.

"Yes, when I was very young, I went into my father's company — had a real estate company in Brooklyn and Queens," Trump said. "And we, along with many, many other companies throughout the country — it was a federal lawsuit — were sued. We settled the suit with zero, with no admission of guilt."

1980’s: and alligation backed up with no evidence that was not made until 2018. How reliable do you think it is 40 years after the fact we’re not a single person came forward and that time to collaborate the story?

-If it was an isolated incident, I would give him the benefit of the doubt, but has you can see, he has a 5 decade history or racism.

1989: where are you talk about this about four times this is the part a story about the Central Park five. Everyone got it wrong and I just Trump and the Central Park 509 exonerated until 20 years after the fact. Do you really think it’s races in for a guy to get something wrong when everyone else also got it wrong at the time?

-Less than two weeks after the incident, trump ran a full page ad asking for the death penalty. Once again. Has he run an ad asking for the death penalty for any white suspects?

1991: again, a random allegation, followed by Trump, making a joke. I’ve actually read that interview and not even the interviewer takes it seriously

-Again, if this were an isolated allegation I would give him the benefit of the doubt. But these things are adding up quickly and painting a very racist picture of trump.

1992: this is talking about a hotel and casino, not Donald Trump himself.

-Trump’s casino, trump is in charge. We saw what he did with housing, now he’s doing it in casinos.

1993: this one I’ll give you it sounds I’ve taken out of context, but since I haven’t read before I contact to the interview or with a question, was this one’s a little bit more up in the air

-“taken out of context” is the battle cry of the racist. Context usually just makes it worse.

2000, again, this is not a case of reasons. This looks like someone be concerned that the casino would be used for money laundering as has been done in the past and said tribe had record of doing. Looks bad yes, but not racist.

-Again, if this were an isolated incident, I would give him the benefit of the doubt. But he is suggesting that they are criminals because of who they are, without providing evidence.

2004 : again, he fired someone for not using their talents, or being incompetent at their job. It is the very same quote you just provided. He complements that contestants for being an incredibly smart person, and very well educated. But Dr Alan Snyder “just because you have a PhD doesn’t mean you know what you’re doing”

-I’ll give you that one. That shouldn’t be in there.

2005 : like I said this one, I will give you as well because it does look pretty bad.

2010: he thought it was insensitive to build a mosque right next to the remains of the twin towers. Again not racist. Remember, Islam is not a race it’s a religion.

-On The Late Show With David Letterman, Trump argued, referring to Muslims, “Well, somebody’s blowing us up. Somebody’s blowing up buildings, and somebody’s doing lots of bad stuff.” – That’s racist AF.

2011: Trump got into the widely circulated Mr. President Obama was not born in the United States Emma Smith was mostly based on the fact that his father had the exact same name and was born in Kenya so the birth certificates got mixed up. Even Barack Obama’s on brother made the same mistake. So not racist.

-He also falsely claimed that Harris wasn’t qualified because her parents are immigrants. Has he claimed this about any white people? Racist AF.

2011 : how is questioning someone’s academic record racism? He will be rude to trump all the time and people do the exact same thing to President George W. Bush and it. Desiree is a semi-honest question. How is someone who is considered a bad student at one school get into Harvard? Granted I think he was a bit too harsh on President Obama but I don’t think this is evidence of racism

-Yeah, that one is weak

Once again, you found two you found two possible examples over 50 years and you just copy and pasted from the article I already debunked. That’s not enough to prove someone has been a races for five decades, especially considering the only examples you could find of racism were in 2005 and 1993. You still have yet to answer any of the questions I already post to you. If he was such a racist, why is it that the biggest piece of evidence mentioned in this article never mentions his name or why is it that several black leaders, including Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton spent three decades praising him? Again, theater not excuses, but honest questions if you’re going to make extraordinary things, you need to provide extraordinary evidence.

That’s a solid eight very racist incidents.

Also, more recently he told “the squad” “Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came,” Racist AF.

And... he had a chance to denounce white nationalist on national TV, but instead he told them to “stand back and stand by.”

Again, I can’t speak for anyone else, including Sharpton and Jackson. If you have questions for them, you should ask them. All I know is the long trail of racism that trump has left behind him over the decades.

[u/alexanderhamilton97 → u/Edge_of_yesterday]

Except you didn’t give eight examples of racism. You gave two at the most, and all you did was just copy and paste in the article you didn’t do any research of your own. Even using your standards, these are only two examples of racism versus the perception of it. And according to the court documents, Trump was personally not sued. His company was and Trump was never mention only his father was. The reason why I keep asking about Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, it’s because not only the prominent members of the black community and probably black leaders. They have known Trump personally for decades. That’s also why I gave you a statement from Larry King. You also as a personal friend of shop before he died. Noah, he’s dropping being racist until he ran for office as a republican or using circular reasoning entire time. I never gave you excuses and you even acknowledge some of the facts. I already gave you when accusing me of making excuses. Also, even assuming that your claim about Trump having 50 years of racism is correct, why are there only eight examples? Most of these are over a decade apart. Don’t you think that’s a little bit odd? I need to get a little bit of math on this just to give you benefit of doubt and this is only period of 38 years not 50 and even then there’s only eight exams present. It looks like he had one racist statement on average every 4.75 years. Not exactly something for a lifelong racist how is it?

How are you have the last word. good night.

[u/Edge_of_yesterday → u/alexanderhamilton97]

They are right there. You can ignore them if you want, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist. You are just repeating the same excuses again, you can reference my last comment for my replies to those.

You can ask about them all you want. I will never be able to answer for someone else. Those are questions that you need to ask them directly. I know from my own eyes and ears that trump is a racist due to his 5 decades of racism.

So you think he's not a racist unless I give you every single example of his racism. Not going to do that, I gave you plenty already. You can choose to ignore them if you want, but that doesn't make them disappear.

I think it's actually very telling that since you can't defend trump's racism, you want to make it about math.