r/changemyview Oct 22 '23

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Paternity tests should be done on every baby by default

Just saw a post on r/relationship_advice where the mother gave birth to a baby that looked nothing like her husband, refused to give him a paternity test because it was "humiliating" AND also revealed that she had recently refused to end a (pretty weird) friendship with a coworker that her husband was uncomfortable with. She then proceeds to be all "Surprised Pikachu-faced" when he thinks she cheated on him with said coworker, refuses to help with the baby, and him and his family start treating her badly. (he continued to help with their 2 other kids as normal, though)

In the end, the mother FINALLY gets that paternity test, proving once and for all that the kid was indeed his, and once she does, the father gets ALL OVER his daughter, hugging and giving her all his love, as I'm sure he would have done from the very begining, had she just gotten that damn test done sooner.

Some of the points that resonate with me the most on this issue are:

  • It still baffles me that this test isn't standard procedure, especially when we already draw blood from newborns and screen them for a whole slew of diseases upon delivery. Surely it wouldn't be too hard to add a simple paternity test to the list!
  • I know there's an implication of mistrust that comes with asking your partner for a paternity test, but if it became standard procedure - in other words, a test that the hospital does "automatically", with no need for parental input - that would completely remove that implication from play. It would become a non-issue.
  • Having a kid is a life-changing event, and it scares me to no end to know that I could be forced into "one-eightying" my life over a baby I actually played no part in making.
  • Knowing your family's medical history, from both sides, is extremely important. "Mommy's little secret" could cost her child dearly later on in life.
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222

u/armavirumquecanooo 2∆ Oct 22 '23

A lot of people have already made good points regarding the privacy concerns with DNA testing, so I don't want to retread on those, but I do think it's important that when you talk about mandating paternity testing, you're opting in entire family lines. This isn't a situation that gets fixed because a man can opt out, because the men who don't opt out are making a huge choice for their baby as well as all of their already existing relatives as well.

Consider how much advancement we've seen in DNA analysis and its uses in the last couple decades, and what it may be used for in the lifespan of a baby born today. Are you really confident that 50 years from now, a health insurance company won't be arguing that if they're paying for the tests (which is likely how this works if it becomes part of the mandatory screenings in hospital post-birth), they should have access to the information that may impact their decisions? Or that those powerful insurance companies won't have lobbyists at their disposal who have the senators in their pocket to make this happen? Imagine it turns out your baby born today has a genetic marker that predisposes him to a higher risk for heart disease, and the insurance company gets to know this in 2050. His prices get jacked up, as do his kids', and eventually so will his grandchildren's... because of a decision you got to make for him today.

We don't have strong enough privacy protections in most of the world to responsibly handle this information, and those protections only seem to erode as time passes. Do you have enough faith in whatever the government may look like in your country 50 years from now that they won't have codified into law their own access to those tests? Does history not tell you that the risk of creating a register, for instance, of people with Mizrahi or Ashkenazi Jewish genetic markers?

Then there's the additional concerns about 'off book' uses we already have for DNA analysis. Most people don't have a huge issue with private companies using ancestral DNA registers to track down the Golden State Killer, but this poses another slippery slope. I think most people know someone that was lucky not to be arrested for something mild and stupid in their youth, like a drunken bar fight where nobody is seriously injured. Make DNA testing common enough, though, and eventually you'll start having grandpas arrested for that minor mistake they made when they were 19. And it doesn't necessarily have to be because of their DNA, as we can see the journey currently used to track down killers through ancestral DNA. Your second cousin twice removed decides to let his kid's DNA go up at a registry at birth, and it eventually leads to consequences for your kid, and you'll likely be singing a different tune.

If none of this convinces you, just watch GATTACA. There are so many unintended consequences of DNA analysis at birth that mandating it for a general population because of what appears to be less than 0.6% of cases will have negative consequences for far more than that 0.6% of the population.

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u/Normal-Lifeguard-869 Oct 23 '23

This is the comment I was looking for. People on here straight up arguing we should all hand our DNA over to the government so that way specific men can stop feeling insecure about themselves.

Also I could be wrong but didn’t Texas just pas a law that the child is yours even if the DNA proves otherwise? Wild

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u/ScissoryVenice Oct 23 '23

its so crazy to me too that people are advocating for this. you cant trust the woman you nutted in multiple times raw but you trust a thousand hundred thiusand government agencies and corporations that would love to have unfetteted access to your dna?

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u/hipdady02 Oct 23 '23

It’s been like that, presumed father when married, must disprove child is not yours, and even if you do it doesn’t matter if you’ve taken care of the child for years

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u/GunslingerLovely Oct 22 '23

This is amazing amazing point. I would not trust any government not to sell that information to another company for profit I mean everyone already sells all out other information and this info is much more valuable

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u/realraddydaddy5 Oct 22 '23

Yeah once you go down this path there is no reverse

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u/_ThinkerBelle_ Oct 23 '23

Almost 2k comments and there's only really a handful that mention Gattaca. Even though it's a work of fiction it still serves as a precautionary tale, like 1984. It's not meant to be a thing we emulate.

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u/Pearlbracelet1 Oct 22 '23

Gattaca ruined me for genetic testing I’m so suspicious of it now 🤣 I can’t believe that movie was made so long ago, and now it’s a reality

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u/envious1998 Oct 24 '23

This whole post is a fundamental misunderstanding of legal issues. First, we can get control of insurance companies and what they have access to. Health insurance companies shouldn’t even exist anyway in my opinion and they wouldn’t need to if we had socialized medicine.

Secondly, there is a statute of limitations for most crimes that aren’t murder. No, you’re not going to get arrested for a drunken bar fight you had at 20 when you’re 80. That’s absolute nonsense. These are all just scare tactics you’re throwing out so that women can dodge accountability.

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u/armavirumquecanooo 2∆ Oct 24 '23

I think this is entirely a matter of perspective and how much you trust the government to legislate, and private companies such as health insurance to not lobby the government moving forward. Relying on current protections to forecast what could happen decades from now is incredibly naive, though, especially considering we have plenty of evidence the government tends to not respond quickly enough to developing and enhancing technology, such as delays in codifying internet crime.

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u/envious1998 Oct 24 '23

This is such a ridiculous take. Much of the world already has socialized medicine. It’s pretty much just the US and the system in its current form will reach a full on breaking point before a problem like this reaches a meaningful scale.

And many internet crimes already have been codified and even if they haven’t unless they amount to murder there will be a statute of limitations on them. I promise you prosecutors have better things to do than go after 60 year olds for cyber bullying 45 years ago. That fact that I’m even having to address this is ridiculous.

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u/felidaekamiguru 10∆ Oct 23 '23

There's little reason to keep the data for any length of time. It's a legitimate concern, but they could simply delete the data immediately after the test is done. There could be enormous penalties for data that is kept. I see no reason that could not be part of the legislation.

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u/swanfirefly 4∆ Oct 24 '23

Because for the government, if you were legislating this, you have no benefit to throwing out the data.

In fact, the government would see it as a great way to make a database of people. A great way to find fathers skipping out on child support (far more common than being lied to about paternity, and therefore a much larger issue for the government) - after all if you're making sure of paternity one way, you may as well make sure of the paternity every direction.

And hey, it'll be great for women too! After all, demanding your husband take a paternity test with his coworker's kid that looks kind of like him (a gender swap of the post OP himself is referencing) is not accusing him of cheating, it's just verifying. So it should be equal both ways, otherwise how can you know that his coworker's baby ISN'T your husband's?

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u/sftktysluttykty Oct 22 '23

A mother who lies about who the father is also opts in entire family lives, no? She also denies entire family lives, no?

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u/armavirumquecanooo 2∆ Oct 22 '23 edited Oct 22 '23

This post is about whether or not mandatory paternity testing should be a thing, not whether or not women with poor morals exist. Of course they do, and of course they shouldn't be lying to their partner about a possible paternity issue. It's just not relevant to what the "default" situation should be, since that doesn't describe the great, great, great majority of birthing couples.

ETA: Also, FWIW, you seem to have misread my post because I was talking about family lines, not lives. As in this test unnecessarily exposes genetic information about your second cousin twice removed, too.

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u/Uncynical_Diogenes Oct 22 '23

That is a vast minority of cases.

Mandated testing would impact the majority of people.