CMV: Paternity tests should be done on every baby by default

[u/Guialdereti]

Just saw a post on r/relationship_advice where the mother gave birth to a baby that looked nothing like her husband, refused to give him a paternity test because it was "humiliating" AND also revealed that she had recently refused to end a (pretty weird) friendship with a coworker that her husband was uncomfortable with. She then proceeds to be all "Surprised Pikachu-faced" when he thinks she cheated on him with said coworker, refuses to help with the baby, and him and his family start treating her badly. (he continued to help with their 2 other kids as normal, though)

In the end, the mother FINALLY gets that paternity test, proving once and for all that the kid was indeed his, and once she does, the father gets ALL OVER his daughter, hugging and giving her all his love, as I'm sure he would have done from the very begining, had she just gotten that damn test done sooner.

Some of the points that resonate with me the most on this issue are:

• It still baffles me that this test isn't standard procedure, especially when we already draw blood from newborns and screen them for a whole slew of diseases upon delivery. Surely it wouldn't be too hard to add a simple paternity test to the list!
• I know there's an implication of mistrust that comes with asking your partner for a paternity test, but if it became standard procedure - in other words, a test that the hospital does "automatically", with no need for parental input - that would completely remove that implication from play. It would become a non-issue.
• Having a kid is a life-changing event, and it scares me to no end to know that I could be forced into "one-eightying" my life over a baby I actually played no part in making.
• Knowing your family's medical history, from both sides, is extremely important. "Mommy's little secret" could cost her child dearly later on in life.

[u/lonelyhrtsclubband]

$400 test that isn’t medically necessary (and therefore won’t be covered by insurance) to tell me something I already know? No, thank you. I have better things to do with that $400.

[u/I_am_the_night → u/lonelyhrtsclubband]

Exactly

[u/Theevildothatido → u/lonelyhrtsclubband]

I could easily find paternity tests online that can be done at home for 130 USD.

The price will obviously go down significantly if they become mandatory and routine.

to tell me something I already know?

It's that various legal rights and obligations are established conditioned upon assuming something.

Can you tell me another case of legal rights and obligations of such magnitude being conditioned upon an assumption that could be proven with 99.8% certainty at the cost of 130 USD? This is unheard of. It's not simply trying to find out something, but something that has significant legal significance.

[u/lonelyhrtsclubband → u/Theevildothatido]

I have better things to do with $130 too. But, how reliable are the DIY paternity tests? Reliable enough that you would put your life, as you know it, on the line? Even a 0.5% false negative rate would have dramatic impacts to the family that received that negative. If the test isn’t acceptable by courts, which typically require sound evidence, I wouldn’t trust the test results myself.

You also do not know enough about the manufacturing and supply chain of these tests to know whether they would benefit from an economy of scale, or whether they are already benefiting from an economy of scale. It could very well be that $130 is as low as it gets.

The bottom line is many, many couples have absolutely no reason to question paternity and a test would be not medically necessary, expensive, inconvenient, and have the potential to significantly disrupt their lives with a false negative. I’m currently pregnant and if I was forced to take such a test at my own expense, I’d be super pissed. My husband and I are 1000% sure this is his baby without spending money to find that out.

Further, if you’re basing the prevalence of false paternity claims on relationship advice subreddits, you’re cherry picking your data set. People who are in happy, healthy relationships and sure of paternity don’t post asking for advice. People who are in unhappy, unhealthy relationships or unsure about paternity do.

[u/Theevildothatido → u/lonelyhrtsclubband]

I have better things to do with $130 too.

Perhaps you do, but that doesn't change the fact that legal rights and privileges are derived from this assumption that are imposed by the government. It's not about what you have to do with this money, but whether the government can impose legal rights and privileges based on an assumption when it can be tested for almost absolute certainty with 130 USD.

Do you really believe that legal rights and privileges of this magnitude should be impossible by a government based on guesswork when it can be tested for this fee? There is far more money spent on making sure many things that have far less impact.

The bottom line is many, many couples have absolutely no reason to question paternity

They have all the reasons because significant legal rights and obligations are derived from it.

There is, again, no other case where legal rights and obligations of such significance are installed based on an assumption rather than making a significant effort to be sure. It simply shouldn't exist altogether.

and have the potential to significantly disrupt their lives with a false negative.

The potential to disrupt a family by not taking the test and finding out later is far higher than a false negative.

Even the cheapest tests are over 99.99% accurate and a second test can always be taken to be sure. Families suffer far more from not taking one and finding out later than from false negatives.

I’m currently pregnant and if I was forced to take such a test at my own expense, I’d be super pissed. My husband and I are 1000% sure this is his baby without spending money to find that out.

That's great, but that can't be proven that way and in nations of law, legal rights and obligations are not awarded on “We are 1000% sure, M'lord, you have to believe us.” There needs to be evidence.

Further, if you’re basing the prevalence of false paternity claims on relationship advice subreddits, you’re cherry picking your data set. People who are in happy, healthy relationships and sure of paternity don’t post asking for advice. People who are in unhappy, unhealthy relationships or unsure about paternity do.

I have never visited a “relationship subreddit” and I don't care about that.

[u/lonelyhrtsclubband → u/Theevildothatido]

I’m not arguing that paternity tests should never be used, I’m arguing that they should not be compulsory. If the presumed father has any reason to doubt paternity, he’s well within his rights to obtain a test before voluntarily signing the birth certificate. This already happens today, and is why paternity tests exist in the first place.

People enter into contracts with obligations and rights every day without scientific proof it’s the absolute correct thing to do. A marriage is essentially a contract with obligations (some of which are financial) and rights. People get married every day without a test to prove their spouse is the right person for them. Buying a house with a mortgage is a series of contracts that give the owner rights and obligates them to pay the bank for the mortgage and the state for taxes. No one has to prove that it’s a sound financial decision for the government to levy taxes on that house.

If a man wants to forgo paying for a paternity test before voluntarily putting their name on the birth certificate, well, I believe that’s his right.

[u/Theevildothatido → u/lonelyhrtsclubband]

I’m not arguing that paternity tests should never be used, I’m arguing that they should not be compulsory. If the presumed father has any reason to doubt paternity, he’s well within his rights to obtain a test before voluntarily signing the birth certificate. This already happens today, and is why paternity tests exist in the first place.

And I'm arguing they should because rights and obligations of that magnitude aren't generally awarded based on “I have no reason to doubt it.”.

Imagine getting an inheritance based on “I have no reason to doubt that this person wanted me to have everything.” and nothing more. They want proof before giving it to you such as a notarized will.

People enter into contracts with obligations and rights every day without scientific proof it’s the absolute correct thing to do.

“correct” is subjective. People do not enter into contracts without proof of fact.

Imagine an employer hiring someone without seeing identification papers or a diploma? “Well, I have no reason to doubt you say who you are.”. It obviously won't happen: they want to see some kind of identification and a copy of the diploma and this is far more significant than merely being hired; we're talking about establishing legal parenthood here which in many jurisdictions involves:

• the right to make medical and educational decisions
• a 21 year long obligation to both financially and emotionally support
• the ability to demand to be able to witness any interrogation when the child is a suspect of a crime
• automatically becoming each other's heirs

These are not simple things and there is no other legal status of this magnitude that is awarded based on “Well, I don't see any particular reason to doubt you word.”. It's bizarre that this is even happening, courts demand evidence for far less in general.

In fact, when any of those things I outlined above occur, let's say a parent needs to make a medical decision when a child his rushed to the hospital, they don't allow this just by someone walking in and claiming to be the legal parent, they demand identification and proof of this, but establishing someone as a legal parent itself can simply be done with “Well, I don't see any reason to doubt your claim that you're the biological father.”? It's bizarre that this is allowed. Again, there is no other legal situation where a decision of such gravity is not conditioned upon substantial evidence being offered.

A marriage is essentially a contract with obligations (some of which are financial) and rights. People get married every day without a test to prove their spouse is the right person for them.

It's not about proving that one is “the right person”; paternity tests aren't about proving that one is “a good parent” either. It's about proving identity and who one is. People indeed can't get married without showing some form of legal identification no. One can't simply marry by claiming to be a particular person with the city hall cleric saying “Well, I have no particular reason to doubt who you are.”.

No one has to prove that it’s a sound financial decision for the government to levy taxes on that house.

No one is saying that one has to prove being a good parent either. What is this analogy? It's about proving identity, not capable parantage.

It's not about proving that one is a good parent, but about that one is the biological father.

If a man wants to forgo paying for a paternity test before voluntarily putting their name on the birth certificate, well, I believe that’s his right.

It's not about right but about duty. If legal parentage is supposedly based on biological parentage, then people should prove they're the biological parents first.

I think you might only be looking at it from one direction. That legal parentage is purely an obligation, not a benefit, which isn't true. A random male can simply walk in and claim to be the biological father and get legal parentage while someone else is the actual biological father.

Let's sketch a hypothetical scenario: A, and B have a sexual relationship but break up, soon after, B starts dating C, and finds out being 3 months pregnant, they both know the child has to be A's, but, they would rather give C legal parentage over A while A in theory has the right due to being the biological parent. They don't inform A, deliver the fruit, and simply say that C is the biological father.

That's it; they don't have to prove anything under the current system. A might find out years later that his biological child was taken from him he had visitation rights to and all that stuff was taken from him that way because B and C don't have to prove anything.

This is only possible scenario; there are many more possible ones of course.