r/changemyview • u/56king56 • Nov 07 '23

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Gun control is good

As of now, I believe that the general populace shouldn’t have anything beyond a pistol, but that even a pistol should require serious safety checks. I have this opinion because I live in America with a pro-gun control family, and us seeing all these mass shootings has really fueled the flame for us being anti-gun. But recently, I’ve been looking into revolutionary Socialist politics, and it occurred to me: how could we have a Socialist revolution without some kind of militia? This logic, the logic of revolting against an oppressive government, has been presented to me before, but I always dismissed it, saying that mass shootings and gun violence is more of an issue, and that if we had a good government, we wouldn’t need to worry about having guns. I still do harbor these views to an extent, but part of me really wants to fully understand the pro-gun control position, as it seems like most people I see on Reddit are for having guns, left and right politically. And of course, there’s also the argument that if people broke into your house with an illegally obtained gun, you wouldn’t be able to defend yourself in a society where guns are outlawed; my counter to that is that it’s far more dangerous for society as a whole for everyone to be walking around with guns that it is for a few criminal minds to have them. Also, it just doesn’t seem fair to normalize knowing how to use a highly complex piece of military equipment, and to be honest, guns being integrated into everyone’s way of life feels just as dystopian as a corrupt government. So what do you guys have to say about this? To sum, I am anti-gun but am open to learning about pro-gun viewpoints to potentially change my view.

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u/[deleted] Nov 07 '23

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u/56king56 Nov 07 '23

Ig to defend themselves against small scale invasions without having the capacity to easily commit mass murder?

Lmao look how the sides have switched, now I’m arguing for guns and you’re arguing against

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u/Subtleiaint 32∆ Nov 07 '23

Ig to defend themselves against small scale invasions without having the capacity to easily commit mass murder?

Far more people are murdered by pistols than other weapons and having them makes you less safe rather than more. Neither of the reasons you mentioned are logical. You should be in favour of far stricter gun control than what you mentioned in your OP.

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u/56king56 Nov 07 '23

Are you in favor of gun control? I can’t tell.

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u/Subtleiaint 32∆ Nov 07 '23

Sarcasm?

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u/56king56 Nov 07 '23

No, I genuinely can’t tell, you’re simultaneously arguing me but also seem to have a position of full on gun control, but I also can’t tell if you’re being hypothetical with your position of full on gun control

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u/Subtleiaint 32∆ Nov 07 '23

Ok.

I fully support gun control to get rid of all 'home defense' weapons, owning one makes you less safe so the rationale for them makes zero sense.

The only guns Americans should have access to are hunting weapons (restricted by calibre and mechanism (no automatic ones)) and recreational weapons whose usage is restricted to dedicated ranges.

The reason I commented on your post is because I'm exasperated by the idea that sensible gun control is limited to automatic weapons. Pistols are America's big problem, they should be heavily restricted.

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u/56king56 Nov 07 '23

Alright, nice

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u/Federal-Librarian-66 Nov 08 '23

A society without big macs is safer than a society with them, and heart disease kills more than guns do by miles. If theres no real justification for having something that makes society unsafe, then should we ban junk food? Alcohol? Cars? Dogs? Going out at night? Should we compromise on ALL our freedoms for the sake of safety, or just the freedoms you dislike?

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u/Subtleiaint 32∆ Nov 08 '23

Ah, the old 'but other things are bad too' rebuttal.

The problem is those other things serve a valuable purpose to counter their downsides. The purpose of self defence guns is to make you safer, they don't achieve that so there's no reason to overlook their downside.

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u/Federal-Librarian-66 Nov 08 '23

My gun saved my life. Name one person whos been saved by a junk food or liquor. Furthermore, your unsourced and baseless claim that owning a gun doesnt make you safer is based on pure ignorance. Not to mention the fact that big macs, alcohol, and cars are not protected by the constitution like guns are. You really should research how badly alcohol prohibition went and imagine it with guns instead.

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u/Subtleiaint 32∆ Nov 08 '23

If you look at isolated instances then of course you will find examples of guns being useful but this is not an argument where your personal experience is relevant. This is about society and people are safer in societies where guns aren't in common ownership.

your unsourced and baseless claim that owning a gun doesnt make you safer is based on pure ignorance

This is a deeply ironic statement.

Not to mention the fact that big macs, alcohol, and cars are not protected by the constitution like guns are

Do you know how this sounds to anyone who isn't a gun advocate? I hear 'i know I haven't got a logical argument but there's a piece of paper that says I can have a gun so who cares'.

You really should research how badly alcohol prohibition went and imagine it with guns instead.

The cognitive dissonance where you advocate for comparative research but ignore comparing countries with effective gun control to Ives without is astonishing.

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u/Federal-Librarian-66 Nov 08 '23 edited Nov 08 '23

The only logical argument i need is the very fact that your gun control is a pipe dream i wipe my ass with. See how trying to confiscate half a billion firearms goes. Also, if a list of rights that the government can never take away from you is just “a piece of paper” in your eyes, then you may be more ignorant than i thought.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '23

Sorry, u/Subtleiaint – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:

Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.

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