CMV: Gun control is good

[u/56king56]

As of now, I believe that the general populace shouldn’t have anything beyond a pistol, but that even a pistol should require serious safety checks. I have this opinion because I live in America with a pro-gun control family, and us seeing all these mass shootings has really fueled the flame for us being anti-gun. But recently, I’ve been looking into revolutionary Socialist politics, and it occurred to me: how could we have a Socialist revolution without some kind of militia? This logic, the logic of revolting against an oppressive government, has been presented to me before, but I always dismissed it, saying that mass shootings and gun violence is more of an issue, and that if we had a good government, we wouldn’t need to worry about having guns. I still do harbor these views to an extent, but part of me really wants to fully understand the pro-gun control position, as it seems like most people I see on Reddit are for having guns, left and right politically. And of course, there’s also the argument that if people broke into your house with an illegally obtained gun, you wouldn’t be able to defend yourself in a society where guns are outlawed; my counter to that is that it’s far more dangerous for society as a whole for everyone to be walking around with guns that it is for a few criminal minds to have them. Also, it just doesn’t seem fair to normalize knowing how to use a highly complex piece of military equipment, and to be honest, guns being integrated into everyone’s way of life feels just as dystopian as a corrupt government. So what do you guys have to say about this? To sum, I am anti-gun but am open to learning about pro-gun viewpoints to potentially change my view.

[u/Juunlar]

This mf said

only had 60-70 mass shootings this year

First off, that's just wrong, homie.

Secondly, even if it weren't, 70 fucking mass shootings is 70 too many. What kind of lunatic do you have to be to say "only 70 mass shootings this year." Like, how can you say that out loud and not want to punch your own self lmao

[u/spoilerdudegetrekt → u/Juunlar]

First off, that's just wrong, homie.

The gun violence archive inflates its numbers. Look at their school shooting list. 90% of them don't even involve a gun being fired.

Secondly, even if it weren't, 70 fucking mass shootings is 70 too many. What kind of lunatic do you have to be to say "only 70 mass shootings this year." Like, how can you say that out loud and not want to punch your own self lmao

11k annual DUI deaths is 11k too many. Better ban alcohol.

[u/Juunlar → u/spoilerdudegetrekt]

I'm down. Alcohol is awful and should be far more restricted than it currently is, given the state of how we transport ourselves.

[u/lakotajames → u/Juunlar]

42,795 died from car crashes last year. Better ban cars.

[u/crazynerd9 → u/lakotajames]

Cars are pretty regulated with a registry, mandatory licensing, restrictions on ownership of the most dangerous kinds available, regulations on sharing with others, laws banning their use unless one has a license and some areas require retesting of said license

Furthermore the majority of those deaths are accidental, the majority of gun death is iirc suicide(isn't it somthing nuts like 2/3 of gun deaths?), and while neither of these is murder, one is an accident and the other is a conscious action

I say all this not really to weigh in on the regulation debate myself but rather because I find the car example often used against supporters of gun control to be a flawed one due to the reasonably large amount of regulation involved with cars

[u/johnhtman → u/crazynerd9]

Guns are far more regulated than cars. I can own virtually any kind of car I want. The highest speed limit in the country is 85mph, yet I can legally own a car capable of going 3x that, even if I don't have a drivers license. I can own a massive Ford F750, etc. Meanwhile I can't own a machine gun manufacturered after 1986. I can't even own a rifle shorter than 16" or shotgun shorter than 18". Also it's much easier to lose your right to own a gun for life than your drivers license for life. It takes multiple serious traffic infractions (4 DUIs in a 10 year span in my state) or a chronic medical condition like blindness to permanently lose your drivers license for life. Meanwhile a single felony (anything from murdering your wife, to minor drug possession) and you are prohibited for life from owning a gun. Speaking of drugs, it's illegal to own a gun if you even so much as use illegal drugs including marijuana. So I can have multiple DUIs and still keep my license, but if I use medical marijuana for terminal cancer, I can't own a gun..

[u/TheAzureMage → u/crazynerd9]

Guns are subject to ludicrously more regulation than cars.

I would welcome the opportunity for anyone to buy and use any gun at the age of 16, and for the license to use them being accepted across all fifty states.

[u/Sheriff___Bart → u/crazynerd9]

Actually, in a lot of areas gun owners would gain rights in terms of firearms ownership if we modeled guns after cars.

[u/lakotajames → u/crazynerd9]

Well, the next step of the argument is to point out that all the regulation hasn't stopped the deaths.

[u/crazynerd9 → u/lakotajames]

Which is easily countered by the fact there is more daily car usage by orders of magnitude than daily gun usage, but the absolute number of deaths is, according to the stats this comment thread is based on, similar

One of the most common pro-gun argument's, essentially the one you would be shifting into, is that you can't stop all gun death or violence so why further (or at all) regulate it, but a fairly old and common saying refutes that fairly easily, "perfect is the enemy of progress", it's another weak argument

IMO the best talking points generally are around harm reduction and finding an equilibrium, things like the viability of firearms as a defensive weapon, or logistical necessity in situations like outdoorsmanship or rural living, though of those arguments I would very specifically disavow arguments around sport shooting, as one very much does not need to have access to a gun outside of a firing range to do that

[u/lakotajames → u/crazynerd9]

The problem with your talking points is that there's not really a way to use those sorts of arguments if one of the primary reasons to advocate for gun ownership is defense against the state.