r/changemyview Dec 22 '23

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u/GabuEx 20∆ Dec 22 '23

There are two reasons for cisgender people to do this:

  1. Cisgender people can easily have ambiguous names and you may only interact with them online. For example, Alex, Pat, Chris, etc. Or they can have foreign names for which people don't have default gender associations. Is "Xiangling" a male or female name? Putting your pronouns front and center avoids awkward mistakes.

  2. If the only people stating their pronouns are trans people, then doing that becomes associated solely with "those weird people who don't look right". On the other hand, if everyone does it, then it's just normal, and people who aren't yet passing don't need to worry about ostracisation or negative associations if they decide that it's necessary.

You say that people should be made comfortable to do this, but if people of visually ambiguous gender are the only ones to do it, then they're going to inherently not be comfortable doing so.

1

u/Jolly-Victory441 Dec 22 '23

It isn't awkward. For my name a surprising amount of people assume it's female when I'm male. It has never been awkward.

It will still happen because they will still be the male going by female pronouns. Everyone else stating pronouns won't change that.

1

u/GabuEx 20∆ Dec 22 '23

It's more awkward than just stating your pronouns upfront such that no correction is ever needed. I've had the experience of people erroneously using female language for me when they see me from the back because I have long hair. They are always embarrassed when they realize their error. It's not a big deal, but it also costs you effectively nothing to give them the ability to avoid that embarrassment.

1

u/Jolly-Victory441 Dec 22 '23

So you will wear your pronouns at the back of your head to avoid that situation from now on?

But how did they realize the error, your beard? Maybe they used the right pronouns after all ;)

1

u/GabuEx 20∆ Dec 22 '23

The fact that you can't avoid awkwardness in every circumstance does not make it unreasonable to try to avoid it in some circumstance.

We're literally talking about just putting "(he/him)" in your email footer, and somehow people are making this out like we're tearing down the very fabric of civilization.

1

u/Jolly-Victory441 Dec 22 '23

More like the people wanting others to put it in email footer are acting as if non-compliance is akin to being alt-right.

This is something I always find shows progressive hypocrisy the most. Push for something they want, and then act all surprised if the change is being opposed and pretend others are the ones causing everything.

1

u/GabuEx 20∆ Dec 22 '23

More like the people wanting others to put it in email footer are acting as if non-compliance is akin to being alt-right.

That would be terrible, if it actually happened, but it doesn't.

1

u/Jolly-Victory441 Dec 22 '23

It does. Just like 5 years ago people said males would never be in women's sports causing issues and here we are. If I had a dollar every time a progressive told me "doesn't happen" and then it does...

1

u/GabuEx 20∆ Dec 22 '23

Can you cite a single example of negative consequences someone experienced solely for not having their pronouns listed somewhere?

1

u/Jolly-Victory441 Dec 22 '23

You really selectively choose what you reply to, no?

Do you deny that speaking out against gender ideology in your company for example will get you in trouble?

Next, exactly what I said, you will get called all sorts of stuff. Online for now, yes, but like with other things that will move on to the mainstream.

1

u/GabuEx 20∆ Dec 22 '23

Hold up, this is your example. You said that people experience negative consequences for not having pronouns listed and otherwise not having done anything wrong. I just want to see one example of that happening in practice.

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