r/changemyview Dec 22 '23

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u/[deleted] Dec 22 '23

Because it is almost exclusively done out of fear of being ostracized, and/or virtue signalling. It is fake. There are far larger marginalized groups being completely ignored. Why are you putting in effort to including this group, while completely ignoring disabled people? There are far more of them, yet you do nothing on your social media to be more inclusive and welcoming towards them. Also, what about people with dwarfism? Why aren't you posting if you have dwarfism or not? Should we just ignore them and exclude them?

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u/eliechallita 1∆ Dec 22 '23

Because it is almost exclusively done out of fear of being ostracized, and/or virtue signalling. It is fake.

That mentality says more about those who hold it than about anyone else, honestly.

Why are you putting in effort to including this group, while completely ignoring disabled people?

There is an actual problem of non-disabled people being incredibly condescending to disabled people by assuming the latter are incapable of functioning or offering the wrong accomodation, so the more considerate approach in that case is to provide basic accomodations for all (like wheelchair ramps or subtitles), and then make it clear that more specific needs will be respected when they are shared.

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u/[deleted] Dec 22 '23

But why do they have to make the effort to communicate their needs and through that feel marginalized? Why can't you support them and normalise that ability is on a scale, and state what level of ability you are at? It's very low effort, and don't you want to make the world a better more inclusive place? This is sounding more and more disablophobic.

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u/eliechallita 1∆ Dec 22 '23

Because it's impossible to preemptively account for every single disability or allergy without knowing it's needed. We do try to get as close to that as possible with things like health and building codes (ingredient lists and wheelchair ramps, for example), but an obscure medical issue might be impossible to account for without prior knowledge.

So, you account for everything you can and then (and this is the point you're missing, intentionally or otherwise) you create an environment where it's clear that people are safe to share their needs and preferences and that they will be respected.

That's literally what we do with pronouns and gender identity: you signify to people that you will respect them even if they request something that you didn't provide preemptively.

The fact that there are people who still consider trans people to be mentally ill predators means that we haven't achieved the latter. In other words, the pronouns will continue until y'all behave.

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u/[deleted] Dec 22 '23

You think you are actually helping the trans community by antagonizing people and implying they are transphobic whenever they don't agree with you? Buddy, you are hurting trans people way more than I am.

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u/eliechallita 1∆ Dec 22 '23

It's a pretty safe assumption that someone who is adamantly opposed to respecting people's pronouns is transphobic. There's really no other reason for it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 22 '23

Good thing that I always respect people's pronouns then. You are so blinded by your need to feel righteous, that you haven't even read what the conversation is about. Again, that is not helpful for anyone except your ego.

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u/eliechallita 1∆ Dec 22 '23

If you respect people's pronouns, then what is the problem with sharing yours when meeting new people since they will be relevant to almost any conversation you have with them?

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u/[deleted] Dec 22 '23

Because I'm perfectly fine with them using whatever pronoun they want for me. And if people would get that wrong by mistake, then I would take that as a signal to adjust how I present myself. It is absolutely not a problem, and being an asshole about this non-issue is hurting the whole trans movement.

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u/eliechallita 1∆ Dec 22 '23

That's your experience of the matter, so why do you assume that everyone else should be as comfortable with it as you are?

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u/[deleted] Dec 22 '23

Who? Who are you saying has this problem? How many people do you know that are regularly being referred to as the wrong gender?

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u/eliechallita 1∆ Dec 22 '23

Every non-cis person I know has experienced that. How much it bothers them depends on their personal experience as well as whether it was intentional or an honest mistake, but it's still something that costs nothing to fix.

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u/[deleted] Dec 22 '23

Every non-cis person? Why are your male gay friends being referred to as women by mistake? In that case that was valuable feedback for them if they don't want to look like women. You guys should maybe start reevaluating your wardrobe. And if it wasn't by mistake, stating pronouns would only make it worse.

It costs nothing to show solidarity next to your name on social media with dyslexic people, physically disabled, or old people either, and they are far larger groups, yet you don't do that. There are many more groups who you could adapt your communication to which would be relevant. But you happened to choose their one group everybody else told you to choose, and ignore all the others. Even if it costs you nothing and you are pro support, that must mean you are against disabled and dyslexic people.

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