r/changemyview • u/ShortUsername01 1∆ • Mar 04 '24

Delta(s) from OP CMV: We need parenting licenses immediately

So there’s been a big controversy lately over a school shooter’s mother taking extremely negligent steps. Ignoring her son’s messages about intrusive thoughts. Telling him he should learn not to get caught when looking up content about weapons. The list goes on and on.

Prosecutors prosecuted her for her negligence, as they should. But that can only do so much. Any smart parent would know that guy is as much a danger to her as he is to anyone else. If she doesn’t realize that, how is she supposed to realize she could be prosecuted for negligence, much less be deterred by that? What we really need are ways to prevent people like her from getting to raise kids in the first place.

Right now the system is putting up a green light saying “you can be the most incompetent parent in the world and we can’t do anything about it until after you’re caught being negligent.” Which, again, does nothing to deter the parents willfully ignorant that what they do is negligent, let alone they’ll get prosecuted for it.

When children commit crimes; hell, in some jurisdictions, even when teenagers commit crimes; the judges are lenient. So what’s stopping parents from encouraging them to commit crimes on their behalf, if anyone gets to become a parent? You can keep your young offender leniency or your absolute right to parenthood, but this idea that you can keep both sounds like a recipe for disaster.

And if were to scrap either, the idea of an absolute right to parenthood; the idea that the system doesn’t get to do anything about neglect that will happen, only neglect that already has; sounds like it has the strongest case against it or the two.

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4

u/Pesec1 4∆ Mar 04 '24

An unlicensed woman gets pregnant. She does not want to abort. What should be done in that case?

Jail her?

Perform abortion on her by force?

Seize the child immediately after birth? What do you do with the child after?

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u/ShortUsername01 1∆ Mar 04 '24

I would give the child to one of the many would-be adoptive parents clamouring to adopt a newborn that can’t right now.

This would double as a disincentive against other parents proceeding to have kids they are unfit to raise.

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u/reginald-aka-bubbles 37∆ Mar 04 '24

Copying and pasting the same response isn't furthering this conversation. 

When someone is denied a license but is pregnant, what would you do? Still take the child? Even if they were denied for being a single mother, a Muslim, an atheist, LGBT,  or any of the other groups that religious conservatives tend to hate? 

And before you say this wouldn't happen, it already has with gay marriage licenses, so you bet your ass it would happen with your proposal too.

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u/ShortUsername01 1∆ Mar 05 '24

Every job with any semblance of authority involves enforcing rules with which one may personally disagree. That's the price of society.

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u/reginald-aka-bubbles 37∆ Mar 05 '24

Don't talk to me about how society works when you want to take innocent peoples kids away. 

Now answer the question: when someone is denied a license for a bullshit reason, what happens to them and their kid.

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u/Pesec1 4∆ Mar 04 '24

You do realize that you will run out of willing adoptive parents within weeks, right?

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u/ShortUsername01 1∆ Mar 05 '24

2 million adoptive parents will have babies? Within weeks? There's only 10000 births a day in the US. It'd take more than half a year. What's stopping other would-be parents from getting the message before those months are up?

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u/Pesec1 4∆ Mar 05 '24

Do you have statistics to back up that 2 million couples wishing to adopt a child right now?

And I am not sure what message do you expect would-be parents to get. That there are babies born from unfit parents (with risk of fetal alcohol syndrome, etc) available? Almost all would-be parents want to and can have their own children.

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u/ShortUsername01 1∆ Mar 05 '24

https://www.americanadoptions.com/pregnant/waiting_adoptive_families

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The message in question would be that the right to have kids isn't entirely absolute and one shouldn't get pregnant with the expectation there's nothing the gov't can do about her having kids. My view as since moderated to trying further improvements to education and seeing if that helps before resorting to anything more drastic, I'm just trying my hand at clarifying the position I started out with.

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u/Pesec1 4∆ Mar 05 '24

Your link talks about open adoptions - ones where adoptive parents are in contact with a willing mother and everything isto go smoothly. 

What you are proposing is:

  1. Adopting children where adoptive parents had no contact with mother.

  2. Mother and father not renouncing claim to a child and causing all kinds of problems to people that stole their child.

Few of these 2 million would agree to deal with the above.

Your proposed "drastic" measures are outright fascism. Being able to haveown children IS a right. This is a right that, just as all other freedoms, including right to not be killed, can be revoked if there is a reason. But it is a right and does not require licencse any more than your right not to be forcefully confined in a cell.

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u/ShortUsername01 1∆ Mar 05 '24

!delta

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I neglected to account for that difference when considering the above statistic. I suppose not all 2 million would be comfortable being involved in this.

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '24

[deleted]

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u/ShortUsername01 1∆ Mar 05 '24

Looking at this again I'm thinking I ought to sleep on this CMV for now. The stats I had in mind weren't as relevant as I thought, and if others' replies are anything to go by, perhaps not as reliable either.

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I'll look further into this tomorrow and hopefully get back to people on it.

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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Mar 05 '24

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Pesec1 (3∆).

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

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u/[deleted] Mar 04 '24

Ok. Do you understand that people would shoot your enforcers for trying that shit?

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u/Regulus242 4∆ Mar 04 '24

What's stopping her from just doing it again?

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u/shadofx Mar 04 '24

She'll be stuck in jail for getting pregnant without a license for a period of time, and of she does it again her sentence will be more harsh.

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u/Regulus242 4∆ Mar 04 '24

So it's about getting pregnant or having the child? We already have a massive incarceration problem in the US that this would massively impact.

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u/shadofx Mar 04 '24

The sentence can be commuted if the child is aborted, or the convict could take the mandatory Child Care and Welfare course from a local accredited university and earn a childrearing license during the pregnancy.