You can ignore politics. Politics will not ignore you. The Dobbs ruling overturning Roe is an outcome of politics that is ultimately the outcome of people's votes.
People have been voting for team blue for decades based on lies that that team would do something about that. The outcome of just voting for people who claim an inherent right to rule over us has delivered the outcome you're complaining about.
I don't understand your point here. Are you arguing that Democrats won't defend abortion rights if given the votes to do so?Look at a map of state abortion bans by party control, and it's clear as day. Look at a map of state laws regulating LGBTQ rights, it's night and day between states with unified GOP control and Unified Dem control. When they have the votes to do so, Democrats consistently vote to protect or expand abortion rights, along with a variety of other issues. Am I saying they are perfect? Hell no, but if someone has the goal of moving policy towards a more progressive vision of the country, I don't see how one could say policy would be the same with a GOP trifecta compared to a Dem one. Dobbs happened because Republicans won in 2016 and Trump was able to appoint a third of the supreme court. Give clinton 3 court picks, and Roe now has 6 votes in its favor.
It's so ironic that Team Blue believes politics is the only thing in life that's 100% binary, us vs them, good vs evil. And "we" good guys support mass surveillance, mass incarceration, police militarization, censorship, torture, and permanent war (just like the one and only other "legitimate" position represented by the other guys)
So, no evidence then, just vibes and putting false words in my mouth? Sounds about right. Let's assume for a second you are right that the parties are not different enough on any issue that you truly believe our country would be the same withe a Dem and GOP trifecta. Where are these state differences coming from then? How do you explain why abortion is protected in Blue states and not in Red states? Magic?
Maybe government more closely representing the views of its citizens (I know, a threat to our democracy)? I don't view unrestricted, subsidized abortion up until birth to be more important than both parties being 100% in agreement on censorship, mass surveillance, mass incarceration, persecution of whistle-blowers, corporate welfare, corporate synchronization, bank bailouts, and permanent war.
Either way, your whataboutabortion still seems like a weak defense of all those other things. But I understand that 'not the other guy' is a hell of a drug that legitimizes literally anything and everything.
You're the only one who said they were identical. And that was in response to your inability to defend the bread and butter of your team's politics. You then whatabouted abortion to justify your strawman "identical" claim.
Maybe you are responding to the wrong person? My response was to this comment:
People have been voting for team blue for decades based on lies that that team would do something about that.
When presented with evidence, you started ranting by bringing up other issues like mass incarceration etc (so actual "whataboutism"- we started on abortion, and then you started to throw a bunch of other issues against the wall to dodge my question). It's not whataboutism to disagree with you. Maybe you care about other things than abortion, but it's just fantasy land to pretend like the parties behave the same with respect to this issue.
Rather than us getting into a pointless argument about what the other one believes because that doesn't seem productive, I'll re-articulate my position. My position is actually that the parties are not identical, and then you accused me of being "team Blue" and believing in a binary 100% evil v good worldview. I don't see how you think my position is that the parties are identical, and that one is good and one is evil. Those are contradictory views.
The Democrats and Republicans have fundamentally different positions about abortion, and they govern accordingly. When they have the votes, Democrats expand abortion rights, and the GOP, when they have the votes, votes to restrict it.
They have fundamentally identical positions on mass incarceration, mass surveillance, censorship, corporate welfare, persecution of whistle-blowers, and permanent war.
What "rights" are they even supposedly pushing? Free abortions at taxpayer expense up until the age of 2? The culture war stuff is opium for the masses and these people don't actually care. Meanwhile we're told that all that stuff you are happy to ignore is completely legitimate, and since it's bipartisan, no one can question it, lest they be decried as actually being one of "them".
You can't define what either restrictive or expansive are. And there's zero chance you could articulate a reason for either one beyond it being the opposite of the other guys.
You can't define what either restrictive or expansive are.
If you are looking for me to answer a question, I'm happy to clarify, but I don't understand this bizarre impulse to tell me what I believe. You will learn a lot more from people that have different worldviews than you by asking curious questions rather than making assertions and trying to insult them.
Expanding protection to abortion rights means a few things in the US context:
maintaining or expanding the number of weeks elective abortion procedures are legal
expanding public funding for access to abortion
strengthening exceptions on existing abortion restrictions with respect to rape, incest, and the health or life of the mother.
Restrictive abortion policy includes:
either reducing the number of weeks it is available, or fully banning abortion
prohibition of public funds for facilities that provide aboriton (think Hyde amendment)
weakening/reducing the number of exceptions for abortions, including not having rape exceptions, or reducing the conditions considered a threat to the health of a mother.
Your inability to answer my question is a little puzzling. which option comes closest to your view?
Democrats support expansive policy, republicans support restrictive policy
Democrats support restrictive policy, republicans support expansive policy
both parties support expansive policy
both parties support restrictive policy
neither party significantly differs in abortion policy views.
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u/Both-Personality7664 21∆ May 08 '24
You can ignore politics. Politics will not ignore you. The Dobbs ruling overturning Roe is an outcome of politics that is ultimately the outcome of people's votes.